Here’s a somewhat basic question. A client needs a new fence for his backyard. It’s size will be 8+ feet high by 32 feet long.
I’m wondering what’s the best way to mount the posts in the ground. I was thinking of pouring some concrete tubes, with threaded rod or mounting plates in them. Then attaching the posts on top of the concrete pilars. I’ve never done this kinda thing before. What’s standard? Also the fence is between two buildings, so it gets structural reinfocrment at the ends, if that makes sense. (see drawing)
The new fence is going be pretty hefty, so I want to be sure that it’s gonna be strong. Any advice, please.
The old fence had 6″x6″ posts which were stuck into the ground, no concrete or nothing. Well they rotted out and the whole fence fell over. I think it took out a car too (there’s a parking lot on the other side) Glad it wasn’t my handywork.
Thanks again,
Majorelle
Replies
One other question, aside from pressure treated, what other woods are good for exterior use? What will last the longest?
-m
I would be concerned about wind loads on the post mount system you mention. That type mounting is meant for porch deck posts where there is braceback to the house to offset lateral loading. Winds will be higher between two brick buildings too.
The only posts I would use here would be Pressure treated, either 4x4 or 6x6 set into the ground. Conventional wisdom on them is to dig deep enough to avoid frost (3-4'?), set them on a bag of Sakrete(it will set up later from ground water) and backfill with gravel or other draining soil. You don't want a clay backfill because it will retain water which wil freeze to the post and lift it out. Excellence is its own reward!
I set posts @ 24" deep and mix a bag of Quickcrete (on the thick side) so I won't have to brace, and pour in around the post and plumb it and move on. For an 8' high fence, I would go 3' deep minimum. Only built one fence in the last 15 years though! Good luck!
Alright, posted in the ground they'll be.
Piffin, that does make sense about the lateral load and all. I figured I might have to dig some deep holes. Aside from using a shovel what's the best (and cheapest) way to dig the holes. I can think of one tool, it looks like a glorified set of tongs, to dig with. I've also heard of hand-turned augers. What program should I go with?
Again thanks for the replys
Majorelle
Hi...Try useing both augar and scissor type tool {borrow from a friend ,maybe borrow friend too.} scissor type helps you go through roots , augar cleans crumbs easily. Remember 2=4 ft is a long way down , try to keep holes plumb. If you see a Bobcat in your area ask if you can hire them ,adavantage less labor , bigger holes that allow you to shift post for perfect alignment . With the bigger holes I use round concrete patio stepping pads at the bottom and gravel fill tamped as you fill. Just curious which way are you going to face finished side of fence?
Thanks for the advice, and oh yeah I'll be "borrowing" a few extra hands for this one.
I was trained as a furniture maker, so the whole exterior realm is a new kind of challenge. Should I worry about these posts rotting out eventually? Any measures I can take to prolong their lives?
The fence is getting covered with boards facing the parking lot, while the backyard side is getting faced with lattice work in an asian style. It's going to match a japanese hot tub, or something the like. This guy always has 5 projects going on at once, a real blessing and a curse.
-M
Eventually yes, but that's a long time. I don't know your climate and soils but you should expect somewhere between twenty and fourtyyears, probably closer to the 40.
I get a guy to bring his auger on the tractor anymore. If you've got decent soil, you can dig all those in a day though with a "spud bar" (grin) and a posthole digger, which is the name for that clamshell levered digging tool.Excellence is its own reward!
"glorified set of tongs"
never heard 'em called that............(-:
I wouldn't try to dig a whole bunch of holes by hand with a post hole digger. Unless you just want blisters and exercise.
Getting someone with a Bobcat or tractor and digger is the easiest option. But you might not want to get heavy machinery in around existing buildings if access is tight or if they're likely to tear up the landscaping.
Most rental places have portable gas engine powered post hole diggers. They're good for small jobs and tight areas.
But you'll still need a set of "glorified tongs" (Post hole diggers) to clean the loose dirt out of the bottom of the hole. I'd just buy a set - They're handy to have around.
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.
Boss, Have you actually USED one of those gas powered augers????
I gave mine away so I wouldn't be tempted to use it anymore and keep hurting myself. Takes about four men to start having fun with one.Excellence is its own reward!
I've used a couple of different kinds of them.
The "Two man" kind that has an engine and a couple of "bicycle" style handle bars. They work OK, but wear you out fast.
The other kind I've used had the engine mounted on a cart, and a powered shaft running to the auger. The shaft was rigid, and resisted the torque from the auger, so it was a one man machine.
Either one will do the job, and is quicker than the hand diggers.
Support your local undertaker - drop dead.
I rented one of the one-man augers when I built my deck. I dug 14 holes, 12" diameter and 3' deep, in one (long) afternoon. It would have gone much faster, but I kept hitting rocks the size of watermellons. Digging and/or breaking up the stones took all the time. The auger worked like a champ. It was hydraulic and had a bit of a herky-jerky motion, but I was quite pleased with it. If I had a dozen or so holes to dig, I would definitely rent that machine again.
Years ago, I helped a friend with one of those two-handlbars-on-a-gearbox style augers. We were digging in pretty hard soil, so maybe it wasn't a fair test of the machine, but I doubt there's been a day when I cursed more.
Stay away from the gas powered two man augers. I sprained a wrist when my BH let go!!
I have used a wheel mounted rental unit that has a 10 HP hydraulic pump mounted on one end of a 10 ft steel pipe with wheels in the middle and a hydraulic moter on the other end of the pipe that powers the auger. The engine and pump counter balance the auger and moter. It worked very well. It hooks on the trailer hitch and tows.
Two-MAN augers, hmmmm....I wish you'd tell that to Bonehead Billy. he had me on the wrong side of one of those consarned contraptions, digging 18 holes, 4' down, through vw bug sized rocks...my right side was so black and blue, it looked like a nun that found out she wasn't going to heaven. Majorell, if he wasn't so cute, I'd make him dig all those holes for you, but did I mention how cute he is?...
Mrs. 'Snort
Edited 9/16/2002 6:45:24 PM ET by bucksnort billy
At least you didn't tie into any roots! Now THAT'S a fun ride!
What could he have been thinking, to put the love of his life in the line of fire from one of those monsters.
Handlebars!!!!!
That's a misnamed apparatus if I ever heard one! Those are flailes for felonious fools.
Oooph!
Omph!
Aahhi!
Ouch!
Ach!
****!Excellence is its own reward!
Oh, didn't I mention the roots? Like anacondas...then he batted those big blue eyes at me...
Misses 'Snort It's okay, I can fix it!
".then he batted those big blue eyes at me..."
Billy or the anaconda?Excellence is its own reward!
Here in the midwest fence posts typically are 42" deep. I have dug them by hand and also w/ the one man augers. I have seen them backfilled w/ gravel but always use concrete myself. The one detail I was taught is to "bell" the bottom of the holes. It helps resist uplift on the posts w/ the freeze thaw cycles. It is really easy to do w/ the clamshell type auger or a spade. With 32' you won't have that many holes anyway (7-8). Set your two outside posts first w/ a stiff mix, pull a string and touch the string w/ the rest. Leave them high and cut at the end. Have fun.
J.
My hat's off to all the advice. I'm going down to the rental agency and see what they got in terms of augers tommorrow. That is if it ever stops raining, then I'll be able to get this project under way. Cha-ching <- the sweet sound of a paycheck.
Hey Boss Hog, you got a book of those quotes or what?
My favorite: "Rehab is for quitters"
Good luck on that second floor house, trusses and all. And I thought clients on furniture jobs could be tough.
-M