Just found out that my customers wife is pregnant. We sprayed Demilec open cell foam today. Tonight they are concerned with the smells. Have any of you researched the hazards of spray foam as it relates to pregnancy? I can’t find any mention of pregnancy in their MSDS literature.
Customer doesn’t want to go back in the house until they have something in writing from the manufacturer that it is safe. I think that is going to be impossible to get.
What do you guys know?
Rich
Replies
no solid knowledge for you, but the pregnancy (hopefully) isn't your fault. If they're concerned, hope they got family close by. When my wife was early pregnant with our third and we didnt know, we "may" have celebrated new years a little too liberally. As her doc said " once or twice aint gonna hurt" (paraphrased).
tell them to get in touch with their doc or hosp. Give them the spec sheets. This shouldn't be all on you. Most docs will tell them that if thet're nervous, stay away. It's on them though IMO.
Yeah, I told them if they're not comfortable, they should leave. I'll check with the manufacturer today for them, but I expect they will be evasive.
Fault? I've been with one woman for 27 years, can't blame me for that one:)
Rich
DW definitely experienced major outgassing when pregnant.
But prudence dictated that the pot (moi) should avoid calling the kettle (DW) black at all cost.
AitchKay
I get that you mean intentionally.
Youth are wasted when they're young. Or some saying like that.
Hahahaha..... you walk a fine line at times. ;)Scott.
wont get anything from the mfg. ventilation of course would help and off gassing is probably exponential, decreasing quickly.
I would start with the MDSS (or are they MSDS).
Then, if needed try googling the different chemicals listed.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I think people who spend their whole lives worrying about what is going to kill them waste their lives.
but it should be noted I used to detail cars professionally. Our standard practice when dealing with trunks was to vac and then spray paint the carpet. WHOO HOO! The ones you couldn't do by sticking your head in you had to climb in!
Edited 7/9/2009 9:40 am ET by cussnu2
What does the product label and safety warnings say?
Here's some info which gives some information on polyurethane products:
Source: http://www.tompkins-co.org/msds/FS88.TXT
TOMPKINS COUNTY FACTSHEET 01
The manufacturer asserts:
"Are there health concerns associated with the use of open-cell (semi-rigid) spray foam insulations?
"Open-cell spray foam insulations produced by DEMILEC (USA) are "green" products. They meet off gassing requirements of CGSB 51.23 92 for new residential construction, and no toxic or carcinogenic products were detected. In addition, the use of open-cell foam insulation reduces airborne dust and air infiltration, making it the healthy choice for those who suffer from allergies, asthma or chemical sensitivity."
http://www.ccsprayfoaminsulation.com/opencell.html#61
You might want to see if you can track down:
"Committee on Toxicology, National Research Council, Formaldehyde: An Assessment of Its Health Effects (Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press, 1980); J.C. Harris et al., "Toxicology of Urea-Formaldehyde and Polyurethane Foam Insulation," Journal of the Amerkan Medical Association, Vol.245, No.3 (January 1981);"
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
http://rjw-progressive.blogspot.com/
bob
They let you back in?
Welcome back Bob.
Rich
relefalo
The latest issue of FHB has an article on spray foam.
It states.
Open cell foam uses water as it's expanding agent and it off gasses carbon dioxide.
Here is the link.
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/choosing-spray-foam-insulation-what-you-need-to-know.aspx?ac=fp
Rich
I just finished a job where the insulaters were applying Icynene (sp) and it was due to the HO's having an allergy to polyurethane.
while the icynene may be just co2 , it stunk to high heaven, and I saw the applicators wearing breathing apparati..just saying.
The manufacturers FAQ seems to say it's polyurethane based and poly's are based on on some stuff that can be nastyOf course, table salt is based on 2 chemicals which, by themselves are pretty nasty, so more info seems needed
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurmanhttp://rjw-progressive.blogspot.com/
bob
I don't have much 1st hand experience with spray foam.
That's why I gave a link to the article. Maybe he can access it maybe he can't.
FHB likes to get $20 a year out of us to access their archives.
Rich
Hi Rich:
I'm assuming this is the two-part Sealection 500 foam? If so, the foam itself is pretty inert. They warn that you might choke on it if you swallow it!
http://www.demilecusa.com/Default.aspx?ip=3&sip=44
Foam, however, doesn't smell. It's the two parts that MAKE the foam that smell. This is the part your client should be paying attention to.
The MSDS for "Side A" includes a bunch of stuff that is typical for isocyanates (they sting, burn, sensitize, etc...). In this case, the best advice is to let your body be the guide: if it's causing discomfort, get away. Isocyanates are nasty, but mostly in an immediate way.
With regards to pregnancy, you're looking for "teratogenic" (birth defect) effects. Here's the pertinent section:
Reproductive Effects: No adverse reproductive effects are anticipated.
Tetrogenic Effects: No birth defects were seen in two independent animal (rat) studies. Fetotoxicity
was observed at doses that were extremely toxic to the mother. Fetotoxicity was
not observed at doses that were not maternally toxic. The doses used in these
studies were maximal respirable concentrations well in excess of the defined
occupational limits.
This basically says that unless mama rat ate enough of the stuff to kill her, it didn't cause the rat pups to come out with extra legs.
The part B component is where they tie up their trade secret components. Looks to be mostly some low molecular weight polar compounds (alcohols and amines) that are usually fairly benign. The big question mark is the flame retardant component. It used to be that these were highly halogenated compounds, but those have mostly been regulated out of use. I'm not sure what they use now. But the key is that there are very few actual health hazard concerns noted. Its just a bunch of boilerplate "take appropriate precautions against eating, drinking, breathing or smoking the stuff".
You can't make someone feel safe if they're freaked out. The best you can do is offer up the MSDS's for all three, show them the pertinent sections, and let them decide if running a fan and airing things out is enough. I can guarantee that the manufacturer will not give out any specific assurance - not if they have a lawyer on retainer.
The isocyanates are designed to be consumed in the process. A + B --> C. If the ratio is out of whack and there are too many residual isocyanates, it's not a big problem. Isocyanates will react with water (e.g. water vapor in air) so eventually they will be inerted one way or the other.
-t
So, Guys, I spoke with the company rep today, a chemist, they were very forthcoming with information, much to my surprise. It seems that after the spraying is complete the residual smells are caused by amines, which, according to him, are very similar to ammonia, and fairly harmless.
They did advise that if you are spraying in an occupied home, the area should be ventilated for two days.
While we did ventilate during spraying, at 5pm I shut off the fan and closed up the windows. A while later the customer called complaining of the odor. That's when he told me his wife is pregnant.
If I had known she was pregnant, I may have thought to leave the fan running all night.
Anyway, I'll forward their info to the customer and hope that will ease their anxiety.
Thanks for the replies guys
Rich
I am sure that the curing foam will not be affected by the pregnancy at all.
Can i get that in writing?
sure ... just hit the 'print' button.