Priming 1k linear feet of trim: advice?
getting all my trim delivered this weekend – 1k linear feet – and it all needs to be primed. Why didn’t I get pre-primed? Because I like to do things the hard way. The trim is all flat-stock (no profile) – but because I think 3/4″ looks too heavy I went with 1/2″ stock which was only available un-primed. The stock is clear pine.
Anyway, looking for advice on an efficient way of doing this. I do have an HVLP sprayer (3-stage Fuji) that I was thinking of using. It has been great spraying clear finishes in the past but I tried spraying a pigmented lacquer once and no matter what I tried I couldn’t get it to flow-out right – even when thinned to the max.
If I decide to try and spray – does anyone have recommendations on what I should be spraying? I was thinking either Zinsser BIN-123 (shellac-base) or their Bulls Eye 1-2-3 water base.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Sean
Replies
I did just about the same thing last fall. Set up a pair of horses, and one 2x12 clean plank. Laid out three pieces on the plank and used a roller to cover then with paint, then back-brushed it in, then laid them across the spare space on the horses. Was able to get about 9-12 across there, then stickers and on to next course stacking up. Dome in 4-5 hours.
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I have sprayed Zinsser shellac based primer with good success.If I recall I thinned it 1 to 8 ratio with alcohol. I used a PC hvlp sprayer . You may be able to spray the Zinnser without thinning or less then I used.If I recall it is thin and flows well to begin with.
mike
Dip them in a trough made up of 2x4s and plastic, then run them through two stages of dual paint rollers (one on top and one on bottom) with catch basins under the rollers to catch the primer and recycle it. Finish with a wipe from a rag, or maybe two paint brushes set up to brush the narrow edges as you pull the boards through.
(No, I haven't done all of this -- just the dipping -- but it sounds good.)
Once I had to oil stain wood siding, all sides, before installing on a 3000 sq.ft. house. I used a wood trough (sloped bottom) lined with plastic. The solution drained into a 5 gal. bucket where I sunk a small fish tank pump. The pump fed a 1/4" tubing that I taped to the paint brush. This method didn't require a deep trough, just enough to catch the drips. There was also a plastic lined back to the trough with dowels to temporarily hold about four dripping boards above the trough. The boards got a quick wipe before setting out to thoroughly dry.
I'm thinking you could modify an old time clothes wringer to do this, right? In fact, modify the old wringer handle to accept a motor driven pulley and you could be shooting primed boards out a rate of a dozen a minute.I'm also thinking a Tyvek suit and video camera would be key pieces of equipment...:^)-t
Yep.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Careful with the water based stuff -- it might raise the grain some.
Last time I did this, I used two sets of sawhorses, and the separated halves of a big extension ladder.
Put 4 or 5 pieces of trim between the ladder halves, and spray them. (I used oil-based primer, but the shellac will work too -- so long as this is an interior install.)
Then put up 4 or 5 more.......
Lather, rinse, repeat.
thanks for the thoughts/techniques...I think first I'm going to try to spray it with the shellac base primer - Mike you're right, that stuff is pretty thin to begin with so hopefully it will lay-out nicely. I definitely have not gotten my $'s worth out of that sprayer yet so this should be a good chance to experiment and improve my spray technique -- otherwise its going on Craigslist.If I end up wasting a lot of time adjusting the spray settings to get the right coverage I'll probably default to the Piffin technique aka "keep it simple stupid"definitely a good point about raising the grain with the water-base, though I could see myself doing a quick light sand after the primer coat and knocking it back down. Dan - I like the thinking but I could see myself wasting a lot of time setting up the perfect rig for what you just described.Thanks again
What I have actually used is something similar to what DaveyG described, only without the pump. Just a trough and a drain "tray" next to it that drained back into the trough. After they drain a little you wipe/brush/roll to finish off.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Last time I did a bunch of trim I made up a special set of saw horses. I used 2x6x12' for the top rails so I'd have plenty of room to put the stuff to dry.
A constant dripping on a rainy day and a cranky woman are much alike. [Proverbs 27]
Just get the right tip for your sprayer already. They have 4 sizes.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I have the #4 which is what it ships with - sounds like it is the right match for what I will be spraying"Best for Automotive Enamels, Nitro-Cellulose Lacquer and Latex where finer finish is required such as louver doors, trim, cabinets. Also ideal for Varnishes, Primers, Oil-Based Paints and Stains"I'm personally thinking the #5 would probably perform better for me based on my experience spraying that pigmented lacquer (which wasn't a very thick coating IMO) - and I just for the life of me couldn't get a nice wet coat down. I probably just need a little more experience dialling it in. We'll see how it goes this weekend.
Open the fluid needle wide open and change the pattern to circular, vs. fan. It should be on a diagonal, not up and down or sideways.
Lac. can flash off too fast unless you use a slower thinner, and Pig. Lac. MUST be thinned, all I can get is way too concentrated to spray without more lac and thinner added.
But the shellac primer would be the easiest and IMO, best to use. Just keep it good and wet.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
"Just keep it good and wet."watch your mouth Sphere - this is not that type of board
Rent a paint sprayer (like Graco) for half a day, crank it up high, and run. ;)
"Any advice would be appreciated."
Had to do about the same thing last summer with about 100 10' long 3 1/4" T&G mahogany porch decking. Wanted to seal up all four sides with clear sealer before install.
It helped to invision a football field. I'd think, "Ok, I'm to the 10 yard line", "Now I'm at the 30", "Midfield", "In field goal range", "First and goal" and finally "WE'RE IN!!!!".
Runnerguy
Edited 4/1/2009 5:44 pm ET by runnerguy
i just primed and prepainted several thousand feet of trim...
next to a tall wall... i took 3.5" nails drove them into the edge of a 2x4 x 10... 1 inch apart i did two of these... mounted them to the wall about 7ft apart.... in front of this i took a 16ft long 2x12 laid flat and a comfortable height... on this 2x12 i nailed some little strips of wood maybe 1/2" high 2ft oc to keep the trim off the surface of the 2x12 as i rolled it...
stacked the trim on the floor... picked it up placed it on the 2x12... rolled on the primer on 3 sides with a 4" mini roller... fast back brush... and place on nails to dry... and repete... less than 1 minute to paint and back brush each... i could do about 75 of these in about an hour... and thats about all the nails i had in the 2x's to hold them...
I then repeted the process with the trim paint...
i wouldn't even think of spray'n...
P
Man, that's alot of money. Spray obviously fastest and I would think you'll have to do at least l edge.
I'm assuming you mean interior trim -
I'd set up horses and roll on Benj. Moore Fast Dry Alkyd primer 094 with a foam roller.
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You can pick a 'good side' if it is obvious and paint that side last. You can paint it all at one time if you strip the tops of the horses with duct tape (minor stripes on back). You don't really need to brush out with rolled-on primer - save the brushing for the finish coats. Definitely a good alkyd though ...
Jeff
Edited 4/2/2009 12:10 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
designbuild
I posted pictures of my drying rack here.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=112759.1
I would be tempted to rent a airless if the HVLP doesn't work.
Rich
have your lumber yard deliver it to the finishing shop they use.
then have the finishing shop delivered the preprimed/perpainted trim to your jobsite.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I would go HVLP works great with correct needle may want to add some fotrol so it goes on smooth or use a foam roller.
Wallyo
Floetrol is only for latex.
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Use Penetrol for alkyd.
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Jeff
Jeff thanks for pointing that out I did not read every post and assumed latex/ acrylic primer would be used. That is why I suggested frotrol, But you are correct the right tool for the right job.Wallyo
If you are looking for a reason to mess with your sprayer, fine, but 1K lineal feet isn't that much. I'm with Piffin. Roll it out, and a quick back-brush.
You'll have more time in setting up and cleaning the sprayer than if you just knuckle down and paint the darn stuff. And I think you get a better job with the roller and brush. More product on the boards.
The real time is gonna be in the sanding. Don't even think about not sanding it.
Steve
hear , hear, ..... we ofter roll out a couple thousand feet of trim
all primed with a roller and stickered to dry
two flat boards for the rolling surface
and a couple horses for the drying rackMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
LOL, yeah, pretty soon, we'll have more time in discussing this that actually getting it done.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin I was just thinking the same, before reading your post. LOLWallyo
Interior trim?
1. cut and install
2. sand and fill holes.
3. prime
4. sand and caulk
5. 2 topcoats
yes - it is interior trim.I think I was looking for a reason to mess with the sprayer. But the more I think about it I may just roll/brush. I agree I'll end up spending more time setting up the work area, getting the sprayer up and running, re-filling the spray cup, cleaning up, etc... This is also a job I would trust my significant other to help with so we would have two people painting as opposed to one person spraying.Sorry Barry - can't agree with priming the trim after its installed, especially since most of it is baseboard with newly re-finished floors.Nice rack Rich, I had something similar in mind, just not ceiling mounted. I need to figure out if I have a space that would work well in.again, thanks for the replies
Hey, I'm just a weekend warrior here who's done a decent amount of base and crown in my home.
With that caveat in mind, the method I ended up going with was to prime and paint a first finish coat, install, then putty and put on a final finish coat. All the painting was w/ a trim roller followed by back brushing. If you had a rack set up like others have mentioned, it'd go pretty quick.
And I'd go for the BM Eco Spec primer sealer. Once the weather's up in the 70's to low 80's here in ATL, I can paint from one end of a board to the other and just about be ready for the next coat by the time I get to the far end. The low VOC is great, but it's got to save you some time, too. I also used the white semi-gloss Eco Spec for a final coat. YMMV.
I agree with you Sludge I often prime and paint trim then hang trim , fill holes, then give it a quick finish brush over no cutting in. Goes to the debate of what is quicker on any paint job.
Example is it quicker and cheaper to mask and tape the exterior of a house and clean an airless use more paint or just use a brush and roller cut in by hand and do the job.But the best results on any paint job comes in the prep.Wallyo
I didn't see flooring in OP. Preferably I would have done floor last. You may be in one of those regions that hate baseshoe. I like it, makes a wood floor look finished IMO. If the finished floor was there first i might cover it and then do my scheduleOf your choices rolling would be preferable to spraying especially for only a thousand ft. if spraying in this situation airless way preferable to HVLPhave fun
Barry E-Remodeler
Weather you do it now or later at some point give your HVLP a shot at a paint job.
I love using mine but using one indoors is a problem I like to use it out side when the weather is warmer unless I have a big empty heated space. But the few things I have discovered are; If you plan not to spray for any length of time even an hour for lunch empty the gunt and rinse the it out.One spends a bit of time getting the thinning right so thin out a master batch, 2 quarts one gallon at a time enough to do the whole job. This keeps things consistent on each refill and keeps things moving.Strain the paint on each refill.Again clean the gun out as soon as you are done, If you do that it can be clean in a few minutes with a garden hose or wash tub with plenty of water flow, take the needle out and tip off ( I only spray H2O base so the water clean up)The neat thing in painting with an HVLP is the quick dry time since the paint goes on warm.
Give it a shot at some point.
just thought I would do a quick follow up with how finally did this, and to thank you all for your comments and suggestions. (sorry for the delay but got pulled on the road for work the past couple weeks).turns out that I was able to recruit my significant other to do the actual priming, as such I passed on the idea of spraying it and just had her roll/brush prime the trim. This worked out well since once the trim was delivered I decided that it needed to ripped down and some edge profiling added, so as I ripped and then chamfered the top edge of all the boards she would hit it with a quick sand then prime them. All in it took about a day and a half to profile and prime the trim.In hindsight - may have been nice to spray the trim because there was definitely some paint build-up along the edges that I now need to sand down and touch-up (probably could have been avoided with a little more attention to brushing the primer out).oh - the drying rack...took all of 10 minutes to build. I had just replaced a wall of windows in my living room with thermopanes but had not installed the new stops yet - so I just cut some furring strips to length and nailed them into the frame uprights and voila! instant drying rack.thanks again for all your suggestions.
Like the rack! Don't know if it is a South window, if it is baked on finish.In the future give the sprayer a shot I think you will like it.Wallyo