Here’s my dilemma, like I have only one.
A contractor I have done work with pretty steadily for the two years I’ve been back in this business, tells me in May that he has nothing else on the books right now. He’ll call me. This after he made me commit to several jabs and rework my meager schedule to accommodate his. I’m the goto guy.
He is a project manager for a commercial co. and the other guys are pretty much weekend warriors. I have more experience, except for him, and bring a van full of tools and supplies to the jobs. MY tools and supplies.
I have griped before about no one else buying or bringing tools. Mine get taken out, but no one can ever remember where they came from.
After a month or more of no work from him I start going to where I know they meet on Sat. mornings. They’re there! I have talked to him and he says that he’ss working a lot at his job and really has nothing.
Several times I have seen them meeting for their pre-work breakfast.
Last Wed., he calls me as I am driving near Saratoga, NY, 180 miles from home, (father/daughter camp with my oldest) to see if I can rock a bathroom and basement of a house I have worked in before. Tight and lots of stuff in the way. He says we will look at it and to tell him what I want. I ask if I am solo, or if one of his guys that usually used will be with me. “No, Ray is, um, away I think. I don’t know where he went.” OK.
Sat. morning curiosity gets the better of me and I go check out the meeting place. There they all are. All four of them. Including Ray.
So, now, I’ve been a little screwed over, a lot lied to. Do I work for him, or say FU? I’m sure he doesn’t want to do the job himself, that’s the only reason he called. I’m not involved with anything good, but give me the crap to keep a customer happy.
And if I do do it, I’m sure it will be more money than he’s used to paying me. But I offered to do it that way, so that’s too bad.
What do you guys think?
Replies
Well, you're being treated like the ugly girl who's available for a date when the rockets are all busy. That's why you feel like you're getting screwed. Do you enjoy that feeling?
He obviously has no need of or respect for you, and no desire to have an upfront relationship.
As Christine Lavin said, are you a victim, or a volunteer?
I don't like playing the victim, but I do think I got dumped.I volunteer enough. I'm not going to do this for free, or even cheap.Should I do it at all? Therein lies the quandry.Could use the money, but don't know if I want it that bad.
Make it worth your while and charge him accordingly. Cr**ppy or difficult jobs require a premium added to the normal price. Then start looking for another source of jobs, you canfind a better relationship than this one.
I once had a client who often called, usually on the Friday before a long weekend, and needed someone sued NOW!!!
I explained that I had other clients, and a life. We worked out a deal. If he really needed it done NOW!!, I did it and I charged him double and he paid it. It was worth it to both of us. In most cases, he calmed down and agreed that next week would be OK.
It's just business. You offer a service and, if the price is right, he buys it. If not, he doesn't.
Tashler -
It might come down to how bad you need the $$$.
I wouldn't work for a guy that jerked me around like that. The money is incidental. Right now, I'm single with no kids. My house is paid for and I won't miss many meals. Even a few years ago, I felt the same way. I'd pick up bottles for return before I sold my soul to a pig like that.
Like I said, How bad do you need the money?
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Don,I've already thought about what you said. Luckily my DW has a good job.The problem is I'm more than willing to cut off my nose to spite my face, as the saying goes.
"Make it worth your while and charge him accordingly. Cr**ppy or difficult jobs require a premium added to the normal price. Then start looking for another source of jobs, you canfind a better relationship than this one."
I agree with John. Its obvious you're not ringing the guy's bell.
Don't take it personally - its just business. Take his work when
you can fit it in, charge a premium for the crappy jobs, and find
other sources of work. Don't have all your eggs in one basket, and
charge enough that you're happy with the cruddy jobs...
-- Brooks
You would have to answer for your self.
However as I have gotten much older and being a landlord, Ive changed. When I was young I would say WYF, and not return his calls . It wasnt any thing for me to load tools and leave if I got even with money.
Now I always try to take the best money route and thats first priority. Sometimes firemen go to bad fires and handle them. Often the handleing is what its all about.
He doesnt owe you anything and neither do you him. I wouldnt spit on the loyalty issue at all for there isnt any. So price accordingly and make sure you cross your Ts about getting paid. You need more for the hassle of dealing with someone like that .
Ill probably get blasted for this but if somthing comes up that is better , split. Thats really what he has done with you . You see the problem is that he doesnt want to pay you the price hes paying when he can get it done cheaper so why shouldnt you treat him the same way. In this case he hasnt needed your tools or expertise .
You need to look for greener pastures and leave him for good , but you have to pay your bills. Thats first .
On another thought , Brother said somthing one time that stuck with me ;
You cant find a good job working at a sorry one . That has good merit , but doesnt explain it al . It sounded good , but thats all in some cases. Other cases you can land better gigs . Years ago I used to run out of work locally being a drywall sub when the crunch of the 80s were in place. I found that by traveling to another town and doing some driving of 20 miles I could land a job with one day of looking which often landed more . Many guys here drive farher than that to their normal jobs.
Anyway, leaving town is what introduced me to the commercial world. The sg ft money was a little more but the volume went through the roof. Instead of hanging and taping small closets in starter homes , I was in 1000 sg ft rooms with a bazooka . The difference ended up being 5 times more money at nearly the same footage price. The pay was on the spot instead of hunting down small contractors to get paid on a small amount of footage. I then was turning in footage on Wed and getting a check deliverd to my hand on Friday with every one else on the job while I was still turning and burning with a taping machine . No down time . Easiar client to satisfy. Instead of passing 300 watt light bulb tests for emamel walls , the commercial walls got heavy viynl or texture . Blow and go is the commercial game .
Said all that just to say you might take your talent to a different feild and actually be doing close to the same thing .
Tim
The time you are taking to contemplate this and potentially do the work is taking away from the time you could be looking for new work....Just my 2 cents...Ed
No, I'm not letting that slow me down. I'm home because I copped up my hand a little yesterday.
Every time I read stories like this it makes me reflect on my own history in the trades. I've got a little over 20 years in and worked about 12 of those as a carpenter for many different contractors before going into business for myself. I had three or four main guys I worked for, and every one of them treated me with complete respect. Good money, clear terms, well-planned jobs, materials ready, good help, paid on Friday, bonus at Christmas, etc. Absolutely none of the underhanded crap you're describing.
I strongly suggest you align yourself with a better class of contractors. They are out there, working on the best jobs with the biggest budgets. They may or may not advertise or be visible to the general public. Find them by talking to lumberyards and other materials houses, architects, good subcontractors, etc. The guy you described in your post is a clown and I wouldn't give him the time of day.
I guess my biggest gripe is that I really wasn't aware that there was anything so wrong as to not use me, nevermind doing it back-handed like this.
I thought you were taking that hard.
You shouldnt really.
Its business , youve just got to move on as quick as you can for gainful employment.
Ive made good money off contractors that only call me every now and then. I had to learn to not let it bother me . You get me and my deal or else . Thats pretty much what we have to offer . We are not going to change a whole lot for one customer. There are boo coo reasons . In the end it really doesnt matter as long as we are doing like we should or to us . Ive been places I didnt have enough men and others that couldnt afford my tools. I never did have the help to finish a monster house although Ive struggled through a few. They were better off normally hiring a bigger crew that held more experience . I only kept laborors most of the time and trained them to run boxes and to mix mud. They could not have handled all the hand work a big home needs.For that reason I didnt bid large high end work. My pay roll would have been large . Sounds like your guy is in the same postion.
Hes just trying to take a check to the house and save your labor . You are the one thats hanging around and hes trying to take advantage of it . You are in charge of that .
Tim
This guy is taking advantage of your good nature, knowledge, tools and the fact the you carry a van full of supplies. I would price the work according to what you feel you are worth. Put a stop on him and his weekend warriors from borrowing your tools, and using your supplies. You are the one who has had the foresight to equip youself with these things for your benefit, you are running a business, not a frienship. Keep your van locked when on his sites so him and his buddies cannot go shopping in your truck. Like others have posted do his work if you need to, but look for other work.
The fact that you are so well equiped indicates to me that you are no dummy, so work for him on terms that you can live with until something better comes along, believe me, he would do the same.
Ben Franklin once said: Forebear resenting injuries so much as you think they deserve.
Steve
Tell him that he should at least have the balls to tell you what's going on, face to face instead of the way he's doing it. What is he afraid of? If he's all bent out of shape because you tuned him up for the tools going all over the place, he should get a grip. You fired up for the tools and his guys used them, probably lost a few, too. No skin off of his back but he's being pretty gutless about this whole thing.
That's a big problem- be straight with me!I've already asked if there was a problem with me and the guys, one of whom I was also friends with, and one whom I had work for me also. he said there was no problem, just slow.I'm really not very confrontational, especially sober, so how many times do I need to address this?
When I first started on my own I did a fair amount of sub-contract cabinet installs for a local shop. The manager was also a part owner, and the place ran like a well oiled machine. Very service oriented machine.
The manager sold out and retired, (mid 50's) a few years back. The new owners have a reputation of being cheap penny pinchers, who have screwed a number of people over. The service all but disappeared. They found other installers who worked for less. (missing some front teeth, and a drivers license, but they worked for less)
I could have lowered my prices to keep working for them. But I chose to focus on finding my own work instead. there was a distict dip in billable hours as I moved away from them.
One of the main reasons to pursue my own work was to not be associated with penny pinchers who screw people over. Like it or not, you are painted with the same brush as the people you associate with. If this GC is a habitual liar, do you want to be associated with that? You don't think customers have picked up on his lies?
Take the work if you need it, but like the others have said, your time would be better spent seeking descent people to work for.
My $.02
Bowz
PS I have work through December, and the cabinet shop handed out 2 week layoff notices this week.