The nice older lady who lived next door and used her backyard pool a couple of times per summer died. The house was sold to a young family with a dog and screaming children. So it’s time to put up a privacy fence. Acoustics are very important, meaning block the maximum amount of sound coming from the pool area. I’m thinking 8′ tall fence with 8 ft. panels of western red cedar infill. Talked to a couple of local fence companies but both of them just want to butt roughsawn 1×6 boards up against each other and not worry about any gaps that will occur due to the change in moisture content of the boards over time and season. I put forth a number of possible suggestions such as shiplapping, tongue and grooving, etc., but they don’t seem to want to deal with that. Surprisingly, this question of gaps between boards is not much dealt with in Taunton’s otherwise excellent book, Wooden Fences. Any suggestions?
Max
Replies
top, middle, and bottom rails horizontal.
Then use 1x6 at 8" OC alternating on opposite sides of the rails.
Plant shrubberry
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Eight feet is awfully tall.
You can put up an eight foot fence in your town? Zoning laws in my town only allow five feet.
Not much in wooden fences is going to slow acousitcs. If acoustics is mandatory how about a block wall with a decorative finish like stucco.
Why so high for the fence? Is it an above ground pool?
My redwood fences have 1 x 6 boards overlapped about 1". It was literally dripping water when it was built, but after ~10 years, there are only a couple of gaps.
You might check with your local JHA on that 8' height. Around here 6' is the max.
First I would check to see if codes allow 8 feet fences. They don't here--even side or back yards. I would think alternating the slats would leave huge gaps if that is your concern--besides it is normally considered a "neighbor friendly" fence because there is no finished vs unfinished side.
Agree to the use of 3 horizonal supports between posts. I have gone to using 6X6 PT posts normally used for landscaping timbers. The 4X4's rotted out or weaked enough that wind would take out 8' sections.
One fence that I have watched for 20 years is cedar boards butted and each butt joint has cedar 1X2's over it. Don't know how effective it is--might be style only.
I have watched some recent building of sound walls along a highway. All concrete, has a special pattern to break up sound but involves tremendous rebar to resist auto/truck impacts. Lots of taxpayer dough.
The family may move in one year and you can't go back to what you had with you're previous neighbor. Wait to see if the housing market comes back and move. Tyr
Thanks for all of the replys. Regarding local code, 8' max. height is allowed for backyard fences that have a >50' setback. For those concerned about the 8' height, the pool deck next door is 1.5' above grade, which would not be allowed by the current code, resulting in an effective 6.5' height for the fence.
For direct attenuation of sound, the mass of the wall or fence is the most important thing, so a stone or masonry wall would clearly win out there. Unfortunately, I don't think my budget would support the 70' of wall required. Also, for a given mass, the direct attenuation is proportional to the frequency of the sound, which is why highway sound barriers need to be massive concrete structures since the frequencies emitted by cars and trucks is for the most part a low rumble.
My thinking for a 1x cedar fence is that the higher pitched screams of the children would be relatively well attenuated by the wood (could use a smoother surface on the outboard side for better reflection as well). But I think that the ultimate attenuation for higher frequencies would be set by the gaps in the wood, hence the question. Of course the fence wouldn't do much for multiple reflections off of other objects and diffraction by the fence itself.
I like the idea of adding 1x2 slats over gaps -- this could be effective and I hadn't thought of it. Don't quite know what type of overlap was done in the redwood fence and I would like to hear about the details.
Unfortunately, the new neighbors look like they are settling in for a long stay.
we used 5/4 x 6 pressure treated v-joint (is that the word? similar to t&g) on a friend's fenced-in deck. no gaps after 5 years. that's what i'll use on my next fence.don't know if its available in your area.its also great for a good neighbour fence (same both sides), 'cuz of it's extra thickness.i have seen people use the strips from lattice as a batten to cover gaps, but it looked bad. need something beefier.
I will throw an out of the box solution at you.
I have built a fence around pool equipment to muffle the pumps and to match the poolhouse.
I used hardiboard 4x8 sheets painted layed sideways nailed to a fence frame of treated wood built like a wall with bottom and top plates then a plastic 1x6 across the top.
It came out looking great and seven years later still looks new.
You could stand your sheets upright to achieve the 8' tall requirement.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Just seems like board and batten.
After you install your 8' high fence or wall, the sound will still bother you. After a while, the novelty of the backyard will wear off, the kids and dog will be more quiet.
Life would be more enjoyable if you loved the sound of happy kids and a dog whose barking protects your property.
I have a customer who is located next to the freeway, in an area with a lot of street traffic. It's amazing huw well his simple fence muffles sounds.
He has a simple chain link fence, but with a difference: instead of hard plastic panels, the mesh is filled with a shredded plastic that is best described as fake evergreen fronds. No gaps, and it looks liks a shrub, not a fence.
Thanks again to all who replied. I like Breaktime because you get useful technical help as well as advise from the armchair philosophers.
I am surprised that a filled chainlink fence would knock down traffic noise, but, hey, if it works then go for it.
I should have mentioned in my original post that I am pretty well settled on a wooden fence for aesthetic reasons (most of the fences in the neighborhood are wooden). Although you probably could dress up a CBU-paneled fence to look like wood. I like the idea of v-grooved 5/4, although I haven't seen it in locally -- I'll do some calling around. Wonder if you can get it in western red.
So here is an outside the box idea to consider. I had a noise problem and turned over a lot of ideas on how to address it and here is what I settled on doing. I must say that I moved and never actually had to build it. If you are putting slats on both sides of your rails, you can sandwich foam board insulation in the space between slats similar to SIPS. I have not lived in a SIPS these house but I am told that they attenuate high pitched noises well (but not low pitched) and the foam will only help. You could paint them a natural color so that if there are gaps in the slats, it would help hide it. The fact that they are protected by the slats also might help them weather better.
Hi Max:
Personally, I found Taunton's "Wooden Fences" great if you wanted a blow-by-blow account of how to build 20 variations on a picket fence...
I was trying to block traffic noise at my place. The fence body was 1 X 6 cedar fence boards butted against one another, with 1 X 4 boards overlaid on the gaps. As I nailed up the overlay I could hear a huge difference in the sound attenuation.
I had previously planted a thuja hedge (pyrimidalis "douglasii" - nowadays I would recommend the more robust and common cultivar "emerald green") on 4' centers on the street side. I was limited to 6' in height, so I used 10' posts, buried the first 3 feet, started the fence ~6 - 12" above grade and put a 12" top treatment. I then built up a berm with plantings to the fill the gap below the fence. The top treatment really breaks up the monolithic wall look. In our jurisdiction (Snohomish county, WA) we were allowed a 6' fence body with a 1' "top dressing". Be warned that you really have to play with proportions to get a top treatment that looks good on a big fence.
I feel guilty because I've posted this link at least twice, but it's the only one I have sitting online.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res1ej4d/index.html
The fence is in the background. You can click on it if you have the bandwidth, and it'll give you a monstrous blow-up.
This did a pretty good job of knocking down the sound in a very difficult situation (traffic less than 20' away, cruising at 30 - 50 MPH). In the sections of fence that didn't have an abutting hedge, I added 1 X 6 boards butted up on the other side of the fence. This was a pretty expensive fence, but I picked off cedar when I could find the deals and I built it myself. We spent over seven years fighting increasing traffic noise at that place, and despite the costs it paid off when we sold in 2007. Numerous visitors and looky-loos said traffic noise "didn't seem as bad as they thought it would be" when they viewed the house.
-t
Hi webted:
Thanks for some really good information. I like your website a lot. The fence looks very well proportioned with nice detail -- this is the style that I am imagining. Very solid but not overwhelming. I agree re "Wooden Fences" that it is top heavy on pickets. I would like to see more pages devoted to the details of other types of fences.
The addition of flora to our side of the fence is also in the plans, probably evergreens, and a berm at the bottom strikes me as a good idea for reducing/deflecting noise infiltration and cat exfiltration under the fence.
My plan is to employ kiln dried western red cedar for the infill, but since I'm a woodworker, too, I want to design for movement of the wood with changes in moisture content. Our annual range here in the midwest is about 8% to 12% MC so there will be signficant movement, not to mention the initial drying (I measured some KD cedar boards at a local supplier and found them to be ~17% MC.) Overlapping of 1x boards seems to me to be the way to go. Did you take an special precautions when applying the 1x4s? Maybe your humidity range is smaller.
I think you clearly did the right things to attenuate traffic noise and appreciate your data point about filling the gaps in a butted 1x fence. Nice work!
Max
Don't the neighbors already have a fence? I thought one was required to prevent accidently drownings, etc. Anyway, I don't have much to add except a photo of a neat looking fence you could consider.
I think the neighbor's kids would like it.
I been thinking of a CMU wall filled with concrete
Before the fence, you need to have "The Talk" with the neighbors. They need to respect YOUR space and any other neighbors being effected by their selfish behavior. THEN take any steps deemed necessary to give you back the quality of life you've been accustomed to.