I’d like to drop my kitchen outlets 5 inches to make way for a rope feature in a tile backsplash (3 outlets, one switch, one switch/outlet). Trouble is three of the boxes have wire(s) coming in from the top, including the duplex outlet where the wires are too short to move. I don’t want to bury a junction box behind the tile (code violation?), but perhaps I can set it into the back of a cabinet which hangs above. Has anyone encountered this problem before? I’d rather not have to take down the cabinets to get at the wires behind them, etc., as I’d like to keep this as a simple as possible. The spouse is wanting to change the tile design to eliminate the outlet move (not a bad thought…)
Thanks for your help,
Matt
Replies
You can cut an "old work" box (with eventual blank cover) into the back of the cabinet above. With luck (and maybe some skill and smarts) you will be able to pull the existing wire up and through the new cutout, with a new piece of wire tied to it to get to the new box below.
If the back of the cabinet stands off from the wall more than about 1/2", though, it might be best to cut a larger hole in the cabinet back, cut the old work box just into the wall, the cover the cabinet back hole with a new piece of ply, screwed in place and maybe with a small note in one corner identifying the presence of a J-box behind.
DanH:Many thanks for the reply. It looks like cutting a box into the cabinet is the easiest thing to do. The floors above and below the kitchen are finished, so fishing wires is a lot more trouble.Matt
Matt
What about fishing new wire from the attic down or the basement up?
But if you are like me, 2 story house on slab neither is very good option, but I do have a soffit that I could "play in".
And what do the switches handle?
Also for those on the same circuit. You only need one feed and then you can go horizontally through the walls covering that area anyway.
Edited 2/21/2005 2:06 pm ET by Bill Hartmann
Have you traced the wire yet with a ringer (don't know the technical term for the tool.. just what I call it. A device that will send a signal through the wire that can be "sniffed" by a wand that hears the signal through the wall. Hopefully one of the resident electricians will chime in with the real name of the device)?
Some houses have the wires feeding through the studs... but it "seems" like the wiring comes in from the top, at first. Reality, however, is that it is simply held by one staple and can be replaced with just a little effort and a small patch job to the wall.
It may be worth a look-see. If you don't have the device in your toolbox... I highly recommend it. Not only for this application... but also to "sniff" out those wires that always seem to hide in the weirdest places.
Rich:There are three wires that run up the stud - I know at least one goes to the light over the sink - and the cabinet is attached to the same stud, so putting a junction box behind the cabinet is truly the easiest way out. I like the ringer tool though - it would have saved some hassle on previous jobs. It sounds like a current sensing device... I'll look for one.Thanks,Matt
They are called a Tone Generator and Probe.Lowes and HD both have them either individual or the kit of both parts.The Ideal (AKA Progresss AKA Greenlee) runs about $89-90 and is a good one.There main purpose is wire identification. You need a dead circuit. Clip the generator on the wires at one point and then you can go to another point and see if those wires are part of that circuit. And by turning down the sensitivity of the probe which wires, of several different ones, are the ones connected to the generator.They really aren't designed to tracing through the wall. They only have a couple of inch range. But sometimes they are able to do that.Also they don't have any range if there are any loads on it. I tried to use one on some cableing that feed LV lighting and did not know where all of the lights where (overgrown or broken off and laying under the plants) and it did not work.There are some circuit tracers that can do that and can work on hot circuits. But start at a couple of hundred.There is another "system" that I have had good luck with in an inprovided method.It is the Sperry Circuit Breaker Finder. Cost about $30. It consists of a transmitter unit that you plug into a powered receptacle (or using an adapter into a light socket). Then take the receiver and run it over the circuit breakers to determine which breaker feed that circuit. It DON'T WORK. The problem is that it just can differentiate between one of several breakers and in one case one of 2 panels.BUT it does work as a "remote loud radio". Flip the breakers on and off and and see when the receiver stops working.But I also found that if you take a portable AM radio turn it to a place on the low end of the band where there is no station that you will get a poping signal that the unit generates. In some cases I have used the radio to follow the wires in the wall. But again it is only a couple of inches so does not always work. And it needs to be on a hot circuit.
"They are called a Tone Generator and Probe."
Yup... that's it. I have never had any problems tracing with it... and thanks for pointing out the "dead circuit" thing... I forgot to do so. I do have to search sometimes for a few minutes to get the tone... but it's a lot easier than ripping out drywall and going that route!
I originally got the thing to run MANY cat5 wires in a large building update. MUCH easier to verify the right wire!!! Figured if it could sniff out one wire in a bundle of 200... it would probably be good for tracing a single circuit through a wall... and it worked like a charm. It does have a little difficulty chasing a wire in conduit... but wood and metal studs have not been an issue.
Thanks!
I have a Greenlee unit where the tone generator plugs into a (live) outlet. It's mainly used for IDing breakers, but can be used to trace wires in thin walls. I think I paid $40-50 at the local HW store.