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Six months ago, I finished my part of a res. remodel. Mr. Gen. bid the whole thing way low. He’s still trying to recoup after that nasty experience.
He and I are/were friends. We strike a deal: he wants to barter a portion of his final pymt. Fine, I say, I’m thinking about a kitchen remodel for my house. I need windows, etc. I know he’s hurting dollar-wise, so I stay out of his face for six months. Now, the time has come.
I call him to schedule work and…he says he doesn’t owe me! Just like that! Talking with him, I know why he thinks he ought to reneg on our little deal, but they’re all excuses.
What would you do/say? Don’t forget, up until last night, he’s your friend.
Replies
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Good Morning Rich,
He's not your friend, friends don't do things like that to friends.
You can't do much legally because of the time frame and you didn't say anything for 6 months so it looks bad.
Find other friends and don't do work for them. Work is your livelyhood not a hobby. Keep it proffessional and you won't get hurt. You may not always get paid, but it would hurt to go after them.
Gabe
*Gabe: Yeah, I know. Especially since what you've told me--just love the "good morning" quip--is what I always tell others. An expensive chuckle, eh?
*Does he REALLY think he no longer owes you the money? People can convince themselves of all kinds of crazy things under stress. Maybe a mutual friend can help sort things out. One disagreement doesn't have to end a friendship just because it is about money.You still have a right to collect the debt, too.
*Andrew, actually, I have been thinking along the same lines. To answer your question, yes, he does think he doesn't owe. At least he thought so until we had our conversation that started this post. Come to think about it, this is the second time he has recanted his opinion concerning this issue. I'm trying to take it in stride because he is a family friend, does superior work, and I know of his financial difficulties. I mean, I make exceptions for him because we've been friends for a long time. In spite of my previous post (2.0), I'm not going to let him slide.We don't have any mutual friends; for one reason or another they have all gone away. Because of the different reasons, this is not at all telling of his personality or of how he treats people, even though it sounds that way.I do realize I have a pretty solid case against him, if I choose to go that way. The next month shall determine how I proceed to collect. Thing is, now he is "donating" his labor, telling me that his labor will equal the total amount he owes. That's uniquely funny because he disputes owing me anything, but turns around and says he will work for free to pay off the "disputed" debt.I have been thinking of how to word a letter I want to send him--it'll help my case in court too, my main reason for the letter--but other than recapping our telephone conversation, I don't know. I do want to put something in there kinda' imflammatory--well, not that far--but to garner a response to get him to show his true colors. He has avoided me a couple of times since, just like a guy who owes money. He sometimes shoots off at the mouth when discussing stressful subjects, so a face-to-face is probably not the best approach, hence the want of a letter. Besides, it adds to the paper trail.Your response, please.
*Hi Rich,Unfortunately, most business type letters are confrontational, as it relates to money owed.There is always a tendency to write more than you should, because, between people who know one another, it is emotional.If you want to follow through with this, I would suggest that you sit down, when you're relaxed, start off by only writing down facts in point form.Once your satisfied that you have listed the events in order, rewrite the letter, maintaining a style that is friendly.In closing the letter, ask him, how he wants to deal with this.Remember, this is the point, when you will find out the strenght of your friendship or if you ever had one.Gabe
*Rich, you seem to have a good handle on this already.I'm not too good at this sort of thing: I don't want a fight, but i don't want to be left holding the bag either. It sounds like you're talking about a lot more than $50 here. I think a letter is safest.Say something like, "we talked on X and I'm still totally confused about how we worked this out. I've been counting on some income ever since the [old job] but now you tell me I'm mistaken. And you're also offering to donate some labor on the [X project] to make up for the work I did for you back then. I want to be fair. but you lost me here somewhere." Admit there's some chance you goofed, even if there's none -- instead of going on the attack.Explain how much he owes and how you figured it.Also explain why you're writing not calling -- that you didn't want to get sore and start a fight. Tell him you like him as a friend and that you want to keep on working with him. Just that you need to work this out, then it's water under the bridge. (He's going to suspect you're thinking litigation anyway.) Maybe he's offering to trade labor because he's strapped for cash.Yeah, you should send it certified and all that but if you want to try to get out delicately you shouldn't. There's time enough for that if he doesn't respond to the letter ... maybe follow up with a phone call "did you get my note" if he does nothing sue. (If he's close to bankruptcy you might want to try to settle for partial payment from him up front!)Be careful not to let the statute of limitations run out here. And common sense is a great guide. Incidentally, this is how I think better lawyers approach problems, by bearing in mind that the objective is the money (and/or friendship) and NOT a fight per se.
*Well, Gabe, you are right about the tendency to say too much when writing a letter. Especially me, I want to be so persuasive that he'll run right over and fork over the dough. But, that takes too many words.I do possess the ability to be objective, so I figure I'll still go with the letter. "...in point form", now there's something I hadn't considered. Sounds good to me. And, of course, I'll finish the letter with a call to action on his part. Usually when writing these kind of letters--yes, I have had to do this before--I stipulate a certain amount of time to respond after reciept of the letter. This lets them know I mean business, but also somewhat reveals my next step. In this situation, I play my cards close to my chest.Friend or no friend, he is not an exception to this, for, as Andrew pointed out, timely payment of money due is the object.Andrew, he is quite solvent. He just doesn't manage cash flow that well. He is probably the best finish carp. I have ever met, but his prices are too low. He's moving into bigger jobs using out of pocket financing. Already, he is having serious trouble with cashflow (duh!). On top of that, within the last 18 months he has been hit with some big medical expenditures for his family.I'd say his whole problem is his cashflow and that he underbids all his work. Typical craftsman who just picked up employees. He's trying to make his problem my problem. In this way he is using our friendship because he thinks I'll cut him some slack. But even a slack line has an end ands he's reached it. He assumed--I'm assuming--that he did not feel the need to address the problem head-on with me, because we're friends. Instead of saying, "hey, I need some time", he just went right ahead and cancelled his debt with me. How nice of him.I'll quit rambling after this last thing. I appreciate your responses. I really do, they show I am on the right track. That's what this forum is about. Too, sometimes we need to take a breather and let someone else carry the load for a time. Thanks.
*Imagine the reaction if he'd told the bank he didn't think he owed them any money! If you can't take advantage of your friends, who can you take advantage of?There are contractors WITHOUT "cashflow problems"? Honest ones? First thing I was told was, if you want to be a contractor you'll have to learn lousy bookkeeping ... and how to file those IRS filing extensions ... and to underprice yourself out of misplaced guilt ...Good luck.
*Andrew,When does someone who has not payed for a project or reduced the last payment no longer have the obligation to pay due to time passage?Near the stream,j
*You mean, what is the statute of limitations for uncollected money on a contract? Varies a bit depending where you are, and also critical to know is when the period begins to run.Anyway, your state's code (NY?) is in the library and is online at http://assembly.state.ny.us/cgi-bin/claws. In Virginia -- well, I won't venture a firm opinion on it but I believe § 8.01-246 says 5 years in an action to collect on a written contract. In New York I believe Chapter 8 § 213 sets it at 6 years, unless the Uniform Commercial Code applies (I don't think it would, but check anyway). This is all 5-minute research and I'm not admitted in NY or VA, so of course call a lawyer! And don't wait until the last minute -- memories fade.
*Andrew,Thanks for the nudge in the right direction.Near the stream, thinking like a bill collector,j
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Six months ago, I finished my part of a res. remodel. Mr. Gen. bid the whole thing way low. He's still trying to recoup after that nasty experience.
He and I are/were friends. We strike a deal: he wants to barter a portion of his final pymt. Fine, I say, I'm thinking about a kitchen remodel for my house. I need windows, etc. I know he's hurting dollar-wise, so I stay out of his face for six months. Now, the time has come.
I call him to schedule work and...he says he doesn't owe me! Just like that! Talking with him, I know why he thinks he ought to reneg on our little deal, but they're all excuses.
What would you do/say? Don't forget, up until last night, he's your friend.