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Any suggestions on screening subs to be sure they will: 1)Do quality work 2)Do prompt work 3)Not try to gouge you on extras or make extras out of something that should be included 4)Will listen to instructions you give them and not do things their own way 5)Will not present themselves in such a way as to make you look bad to the customer 6)Be willing to fix details that they did not get quite right 7)Will show consideration to customer’s home and any materials on job site that are in their way. I know a good contract is important but what I am looking for is suggestions on screening subs before they get to the contract phase.
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Scott,
I've talked to inspectors (known and can trust their opinion) about plumbers/electricians/hvac. Who doesn't constantly have to be reinspected etc? Their work tells alot. Once you've got those referrals, it's your business to set up the conditions you want to work under. Interview and maybe try em out on something small. Make your own decision.
You can quiz other contractors/subs in the same manner. Get their opinion on others they have worked with. I've assembled a good group of subs that you still should remind of your procedures and maybe you even request the same crews. Your work too will send a message to those who work around you. Don't expect them to excel if your work shows a don't give a sh*t attitude. It's sort of an educated trial/error method. Best of luck.
Don't forget to be ready when you call, prompt payment, and never tell em how you'll keep em busy for the rest of their life.
*Basically I agree with with Calvin. I do go check out their work firsthand on other jobsites. Definately ask for other builders/contractor they work for and follow up. I use subcontractor agreements that get signed prior to using them. It explains what is expected. Materials, timeline, cleanliness, communication if their is a problem, all kinds of stuff relevant to their trade. I try to spell it out the best I can. After a relationship is built, it gets easier. Until then, a good superintendent makes a good sub.Steven
*Remember what is "good" to someone else may not be to you. Often quality is in the eyes and personality of the beholder. So, take recommendations or condemnations with a grain of salt.If you know enough about the sub's trade to know what you are looking at visit some other job sites.Remember a sub is an independant contractor who is looking for the same thing you are: A reasonable profit for reasonable work. So don't pay for a quickie job if what you want is top notch work.Look at the sub's truck, clothes, etc. Are they as clean and neat as yours'? If they aren't you probably won't get along. If they are much cleaner and well organized you best realize the sub is interviewing You!If you are running a successful business you probably have a fairly reliable gut. So, trust your gut! If it says 'No' then don't go.Above all if the sub is truly a sub and not a dodge to get around employee liabilities make sure all the licenses, permits, insurance, etc are in place. If being a "sub" is a dodge to get around employee rules make sure the sub is dumb enough or hungry enough to play the game without coming back in a couple years with a bankrupting claim.
*Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good subs that are dependable and won't take advatage of you. Righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht....Thanks, Scott, I needed a good laugh.If you're big enough, keep 2 subs for each trade-it keeps them a little more honest and gives you a little more peace of mind when it comes time to boot them if you need to. You may go through alot until you finally find some good ones. Keep the good ones happy like Calvin said.And ask them if they go to confession on a weekly basis.
*ScottThere are a couple of additional things you can do. First off, you need to know the difference between having an understanding with an "employee" that you are paying as a sub & a true sub-contractor.I don't have the list in front of me, but this is part of the check list to tell the difference:Employee:* Set working hours* Tell them what to do & how to do it* Supply some or all the tools to do the job* Set break times & lunch timesSub-contractor* Sets their own hours* The only thing you can tell them is what you want done & the completion date/time* Supplies all their own tools* Can take breaks when they want to & work when they want to.As for screening, take the advice offered above. You may want to start being more specific in your agreements with subs as to the quality of work required (code, Code Plus), time frame for completing work, appearance on the job site, smoking, trash cleanup, wording of payment schedule (including final payment upon completion of their punch list).The list could go on and on. Talk with other contractors/builders in your area and see what they look for.Vince
*I guess everthing is trickle down. Being a sub I can only tell you how I present myself to builders. First I try to dress correctly. All the guys wear a t-shirt with the company logo on it. The cost of company shirts in minamal and it make you look good to builders and home owners. The most important thing though is to have good paperwork. I can fill out a request for tax i.d. number off the top of my head. Knowledge of the craft is another key point. I alway try to speak clearly and briefly with builders. Kidding around is great for relaxed time but when we are working it is buisiness. Speaking of buisiness a sub who give you an idea that his/her buisiness is not the most important thing you all are talking about at the time is probably not very serious. Neatness goes a long way. Not cleaning up after yourself is lazyness. Lazyness is ... well you can do that math. This may not help you pick a sub but it may help you get rid of one before it's too late. In the end I would just go on guts. Make sure you meet the head guy face to face before you hire, evaluate the paperwork and how s/he speaks. Good luck FTDS GREG
*Some of these suggestions sound good but I think attitude is very important. For example- is a person's motive only to finish as quickly as possible and make as much money as possible in the shortest period of time? This is OK but only if doing the job right and taking care of the details comes first. Any suggestions on screening subs for their priorities and attitudes? Also, I don't totally agree with the thing about how a person is dressed is how he will work. If I talk to a trades person after a hard day's work they better be a little dirty and clothing slightly worn or wrinkled or something is wrong.
*Scott W,Word of mouth. It will make you or break you as a sub. You can't hide from your past history, and I've found that no one minds telling you the bad points about one sub or another if they think it'll save you the problems they had.Ask the other people they work for. Ed. Williams
*Scott....I read your list and it sounds more like you want slaves not subs....Perfect work and beyond...but no extra bills charged to you is rediculous. Many of the extras are the GC's fault and the GC should then pay.near the stream,aj (GC, sub... but never slave)
*Hello Scott W., You're askin' for "suggestions on screening."1) Do quality work. Okay. What kind of quality? Here its important to specify quality. Do you want acceptable quality, excellent, good or better thanperfect quality. Learn the specifics of different qualities of materials and workmanship. And their associated costs. Communicate this info in writing and avoid problems.2) Do prompt work. Sure. Start and finish dates. Hammer out a schedule. Consider the needs of yourproject and prospective subs. Can you agree?3)Not try to gouge you...Planning, forethought and scope of work guide lines. Contractual spec'd details . You can't be gouged. You allow yourself to be gouged. Ouch!4) Will listen...Again, contract. Don't work off oral instructions. Subs require written work orders.That's where "I told you so.." comes from. Follows gouging!5) Will not present themselves...If some one's going to take a shot at you its usually for a reason. This is a relationship issue. Its everything. Your actionsand conduction of business will prevent this. Right?6) Be willing to fix details...Completed work passes or fails on its merit. Pay attention to what's being done. If something is wrong, make notice. Be smart and reasonable here. Details are pre determined, not winged. 7) Will show consideration...This is crucial. Communications the key here. And responsibilities have to be outlined. You have to be ready for some one to work. Or pay the extra costs of making a jobunnecessarily complicated. What struck me as odd about your request for suggestions is that it was for screening. Your list, however, presumes the sub is already working. There's no substitute for a word of mouth recomendation. And its good business to use more than one or even two subs in different fields. How lean and mean is your operation? Or is it green and growing? Hope what I say is helpful to you. Regards, Dan-O
*Adirondack Jack, sounds like you're not the type of sub I would hire. I think all my expectations for a sub are only reasonable. I have been in construction for over 12 years, 10+ in my own business. I would not ask for subs to conduct themselves any different than I would conduct myself on the job. If a sub does work that is an extra over and above any written and oral agreements then he should certainly get paid for it, but not at a rate higher than his normal rate unless the circumstances merit it. I have always strove to do above average work and I have a reputation for it. I'm not going to let that reputation slide because I must hire subs. I am doing larger jobs then I was in the past (previously home improvements of all types and sizes, additions and garages). Now I am building custom homes and doing larger remodels where time constraints do not allow me to do the majority of the work myself and only sub out the licensed trades. I have had good and not so good experiences with subs and I appreciate the suggestions given in this discussion so that I can try to keep a top-notch reputation.
*Yeah Scott doing the dance with customer, subs, employees, suppliers and inspectors of one sort or the other can be a challenge. Just wish there was a magic formula that would help keep in step with the music.Unfortunately there isn't. But you do have the basic trained gut. You showed that with your comment about AJ. My experience is that a trained gut is the most important part of making good decisions.
*Scott....Fred...You want slaves. End of story.,,near the stream,aj Not ever gonna slave for anyone but my own customerYou guys are showing one thing...selfishness.
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Any suggestions on screening subs to be sure they will: 1)Do quality work 2)Do prompt work 3)Not try to gouge you on extras or make extras out of something that should be included 4)Will listen to instructions you give them and not do things their own way 5)Will not present themselves in such a way as to make you look bad to the customer 6)Be willing to fix details that they did not get quite right 7)Will show consideration to customer's home and any materials on job site that are in their way. I know a good contract is important but what I am looking for is suggestions on screening subs before they get to the contract phase.