Hey everybody,
I have the opprotunity to be the project manager for a downtown historical building refurbishment and remodel. I will be doing a portion of the work myself as the general contractor and subbing and overseeing the rest.
I have done all of the work in some form or another on other jobs and can bid accordingly however, even though I have managed projects, I haven’t been hired as the “project manager” before and was wondering if there are some general guidlines or methods of payment for this type of situation you could share.
Hourly rate? Percentage? Figure what a year of my life is worth and charge for that?
Any responses, tips, or experiences shared would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Ott
Replies
Bump
Are you going to be working this job exclusively? If so, you will not be able to pursue other jobs during this period. When the job is done you will need time to get yourself back in circulation. That must be accounted for.
The fact you will be GC as well as PM, complicates matters as well. Usually you're one or the other.
Are you sure the job can be finished in a year? Basing your fee on one years salary is great if the job takes 12 months or less. If it takes 18 months you're screwed.
Sorry for asking so many questions, but you need to provide more information to get the best advice.
John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
Thank for the reply,I've been in town for a couple of years spending most of the time on my own house. I'm in a small town and this project will be very noticable and excellent advertisement, most of the town will be talking about it I'm sure.I'll be managing the project, providing design consultation, pulling permits, lining up the specialty subs, subbing drywall and painting, and handling the structural changes and cabinetry, trim, possibly floors myself.I could handle everything but the specialty work myself but it'd take too long.I'm thinking it may be simpliest to go for a salaried situation, charging a flat hourly rate for my time.
If yiou are the gc, will you have the financial assets to pay the subs while you wait for the owner to pay you? What role do you play in the warranty process? What authority will you have?
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5-10% of the project costs.
Depends on how much work you have do or foresee yourself doing on the management side of things.
Your own wages for working on the project should not be a part of the percentage, you are in essence subbing to yourself for hands on work so you just include those in the projected cost of the project and then figure the percentage.
Good luck!!
Thank for the reply DovetailThe project is converting a main street building into a Bistro and remodeling the upper floor into an apartment. I'm working out details to handle design consultation and the plan drawings so it's difficult to know what the project costs will be until all the details are worked out. I done all of this before just on a smaller scale or longer time frame on average. So I would think that a percentage rate would need to be agreed upon either at the initial contract signing and reassessed when all the bids and project costs were finalized, or bid the planning seperately and contract the management percentage afterwards, inorder for a percentage to work in this situation.The client is part of the downtown revitalization planning board and I specialize in historic restoration/renovation. It's a wonderful opportunity to give a 130 yr old building new life and the downtown can really use new businesses. The facade was restored a few years back and the upstairs was a hotel originally. There's very few contractors left around here who have the vision to retain the beauty of the original building while creating a new space. I'm very quality oriented and haven't been impressed with the work I've seen done in this area by other subs on jobs I've done finish work for. Otherwise I'd just manage everything and sub it all. But, if you want it done right you've got to do it yourself right. ;-)
>> I'm thinking it may be simpliest to go for a salaried situation, charging a flat hourly rate for my time. <<
Just a matter of semantics, but FYI I believe that "salaried" and "hourly rate" are 2 different things. Salaried means x dollars per week, etc regardless of exactly how many hours you work, whereas hourly is just that - being paid a wage of x dollars per actual time worked.
Since you will be there doing other work, it sounds like your time could get 'muddied' between the wearing of the 2 hats. The timekeeping could be a real hassle. A percentage arrangement might be better from that respect. I mention this because as a construction management type, many days I go to work with certain goals in mind - like do a specific takeoff, reconcile budgets, whatever, but end up getting constantly interrupted and going off on tangents with talking to subcontractors, current homeowners, realestate agents, etc, etc, etc.
Really though I'm a little confused. Isn't the GC the project manager kinda by default? Or, are they (the owners) hiring other parties to do other aspects of the job, meaning that you aren't really the GC? I think you mentioned getting permits as part of the PM responsibility? Isn't that, again, what a GC does? Maybe I'm missing something here...
Hey Matt,Sorry about that, I missed the "or" in that sentence. Salaried, "or" hourly.It is true that I may be getting into a semantic issue so far as responsibilities go. I have the opprotunity to handle every aspect of the job from working with the owners on design and plans to coordinating all work as well as doing much of the work needed, to finally handing over the keys.I'll be the project manager, architect, GC, and a sub.Do you think I should just call it a GC and be done with it? :-)It's a decent sized commercial project when I've mostly done residential. I've come to the conclusion that it may be best to give them an estimate of my likely time and charge by the hour, maybe with a bonus or two worked in if I can get ahead of schedule of budget.My concern is primarily how to keep the various aspects clear in the way I charge for them. Normally I'd bid the work I do and get bids for the rest and let the homeowner "manage" while I steer things by suggestion as the GC. This will be a bit more involved requiring more time and direction.
Edited 11/18/2009 8:42 am ET by ottcarpentry
Matt's question about the roles of G.C./ Project management is one I was wondering about.
My experience is that the G.C. fulfills both rolls and charges accordingly. If the job is big enough to warrant it they will have a project manager ( who may or may not also be the site super) who handles the "buy out"/legal issues/contract and office work of the job. This individual is usually on a salary and will work more than one project at a time unless they are really big projects.
The P.M. company "buys" out the job, over sees it but isn't the general contractor, yet handles the same issues.
Doesn't seem possible to have both a G.C. and P.M. company involved in the one project.
Life is Good
There is a bit more than just semantics involved.Consider liabilities also, both risk and financial.As a GC, you probably take on the greatest risks.As a PM, you are primarily an employee, working for the entity in charge. They end up with the greater liabilities.I would advise talking to your insurance agent first for advice how to define yourself and spread those risks, then work that cost into what you end up doing.Also research the concept of business plans. What is your goal over the next ten years and how does one of these titles fit into that plan? Pick the one that best fits your goals overall, not just this one job.
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Thanks for the reply, it has helped me in clarifying how I can handle this job. I've handled whole house restorations but this would be my first "commercial" building and I'm trying to determine the best way to classify my services. The owner wants to do some of the demo work and some odds and ends w/ friends, but would like to have me handle all the details of getting the project up and running through completion.I'll be assuming responsibility to see that the dream becomes a reality. Normally I can do everything from framing to finish, subbing the elec, plumb, and HVAC. This will be more involved with several different companies possibly involved. I am highly quality oriented and haven't seen another company in the area that I would trust to sub some of the work to. The client wants to hire me because they know I will do the job right and build it to last. We've only been here two years, and I have the possibility of making my name known in the community by doing well on this project.Thanks in part to the responses I think calling myself the GC would be sufficient for the position I would undertake. I just need to be certian how to charge clearly for the variety of services I would provide. Thanks,Otthttp://www.ottcarpentry.com
Edited 11/18/2009 12:07 pm ET by ottcarpentry