I have two baths to redo in a rental house, one on the main floor on wood subfloor and the other in the lower level on concrete slab.
For installing sheet flooring such as vinyl in existing baths, is it standard practice to remove the toilet so the sheet is under the bowl pedestal ?
Also, besides caulking down the tub/floor junction, are there other techniques in sealing that area ?
Kinda trickly installing some sort of 1/4 round trim because the tub sides is not at a straight. line.
I’ve been staring at a lot of bath details whenever I’m in different ones – just wanted to see if anyone might post an eye opener.
Thanks !
Replies
The floors I have worked on, the vinyl was not under the 'mode, just caulked. And just caulked at the tub...you're right, the curve is tough to trim.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Thanks, Elcid72 -
Just checking to see if flooring trimmed around the commode base is not uncommon.
Either way, though, it would be difficult to notice wax ring seepage resulting from an idiot tenant using the commode seat as a step stool.
I may go ahead and remove the commode and trim the flooring around the flange and seal real well so any leaks flows onto the flooring instead of underneath.
The bathtub detail I'll be comfortable just caulking carefully along the seam.
Thanks for the reply.
I pull then reset the toilet...
and cut tight to the tub and run as small a bead of sealant as possible. Use the most expensive mold/mildue resistant stuff as possible.
I don't recaulk the toilet unless it's some goofy remodel and the toilet sits solid but there's still a noticable gap somewhere around the bottom..
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Thank-you, Jeff -
re- Use the most expensive mold/mildue resistant stuff as possible.
I'll pay attention to the labeling and look for this feature.
As for "most expensive", would that make it one of the polyurathane variety or would it be some sort of silcone variant ?
Glad you mentioned this because I need to recaulk around the tub surround.
I've been working on some rental property also lately. One owner, after getting tired of replacing water-stained sheet vinyl over and over, now runs the vinyl up the side of the tub and walls about 1", caulks the corners, then runs cove base around the entire floor and tub. Looks kind of funky, but he swears it works for him.
Is this method (running the vinyl up the sides) common?
re - Is this method (running the vinyl up the sides) common?
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I have seen "tubbed" installation of vinyl floors in bathrooms, some in non-rental residences, exactly for the reasons you mention.
Might be good for homes with aging/forgetful seniors.
I am considering that option, actually.
Not sure what a cove base is.
I'll have to look that up....
Cove base is that plastic/rubber strip that is sort of like a baseboard for bathrooms, usually 2.5 or 4 inches in width.
Ah, thanks for explaining.
I have seen them in the flooring section near commercial vinyl composite tiles.
Real ugly if they start peeling loose - I've seen them that way with splotches of brown adhesive showing on the backside.
disc 24 is a before shot.
This bathroom had been done that way twice, with the owner not bothering to pull the stool - a few minutes work to invest in a job done right.
What you can't see in the picture is the smell. I knew right away that I'd be digging down to subfloor. Ended up replacing joists.
I dfon't believe that I can cut sheet vinyl and caulk it around a stool as fast as I can take it up and reseat it unless it is terribly sweated in and rusty bolts breaking off.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin -
Thanks for posting the pics.
Besides the damaged joists, the wiring looks like a mess also.
Interesting looking baseboard radiator core...
Was that thing stuck behind/under the vanity ?
I was planning on removing the commode and trimming/sealing the flooring around the flange.
Was just curious how common it is to trim around the commode base. Besides it not being a good idea, it would be more time consuming with my lack of flooring skills.
Edited 6/11/2003 9:40:02 PM ET by Ahneedhelp
I have done a few rentals, some trailers. I always pull the toilet. Most times end up doing some subfloor repair. If there is an opening where the toilet flange comes through I try to cut the vinyl so it causes a channel to run any leakage so that it will not rot the flor/subfloor. I usually caulk around the base of the toilet but leave a weep hole area in the rear ( besides it is harder to caulk back there).
I have used adhesive and attached 1/4 round ( the manmade composite, bends nicely and glues well) to the tub to cover any trim errors. If possible I shoot it down to the floor with a few 18Ga brads. I use a product called White Lighting that I get in both Lowes and HD as well as my local True Value and Lumber Yards. It is an adhesive caulk the works well to put up a small tile job also. Most times I end up pulling the tub because of floor issues.
RASCONC -
Re - If there is an opening where the toilet flange comes through I try to cut the vinyl so it causes a channel to run any leakage so that it will not rot the flor/subfloor.
Do you mean the leak will have a place to go, running down the outside of the toilet drain instead of accumulating around the flange ?
I can see this working in a trailer or a crawlspace setup.
If I seal the vinyl flooring around the flange real well and not seal around the commode base, I'm hoping any leak at the flange will flow on top of the vinyl flooring and seep out from under the toilet base, giving a visual clue to any problems as they occur.
Thanks for the tips on the composite 1/4-round.
That sounds like a great idea.
I'll try to look up this White Lightening stuff.
Thanks again.
You are right about trailer or crawlspace job. I would not make an opening but a small hole would keep it from subfloor. An alternative would be to make a good seal to the toilet flange and allow a weep area in the back of the toilet if caulked to floor so any leakage will be seen rather than causing hidden damage.
If set properly with no rock should not need to caulk, just looks cleaner to me. If good solid floor caulking can stop/prevent minor rocking. I try to get every little movement shimmed out to prevent rocking. I have been using the wax rings with the urethane in them that provide a little rebound. I am surprised that it works because all it is a very soft piece of foam. I have not tried the waxless jobs, think they would not do much without some kind of spring built in.
Done plenty of vinyl floors in bathrooms. First thing out is the toilet. Had to replace too many floors becouse the existing flooring was cut around the toilet, over time it curled up, allowing moisture through to the subfloor. Had one a few years ago where I had to gut the entire floor system due to rot. The only thing holding up the toilet was the cast iron waste stack.
For the tub/floor interface, I always bed a quarter round in silicone caulk such that I have to trim the sqeeze-out from the tub. (Use the plastic stuff for curves.) This seals the joint. I did this first to my own tub over 15 years ago and it's still there, despite the best efforts of 2 16 year old kids.
If at all possible, pull everything out that penetrates the floor before starting the job. Radiators, vanities, whatever. Better to cut a hole in the flooring and drop it over pipes than to create another seam fitting the flooring around a pipe you can't go over. And get yourself a good roller. Heavy. Rent one, maybe. Limit seams. I try to make the floor seamless. If there is a seam, I try to place it at the threshold of a closet.
So much more. Level the floor before you lay the flooring. (I usually apply 1/4" underlayment nailed with stainless ringshanks 6" on center. Leveler applied over this. Sand. Wear a mask.)
If the subfloor is in decent shape, you might not need the underlayment. Apply a leveler anyway to prevent telegraphing any subfloor irregularities through the vinyl.
And last but not least, if your floor has a vent register in it, turn off the ventilation before laying the vinyl down. You'll be chasing bubbles forever if it kicks on while you're trying to lay the floor down.
LOL
Should I ask how you found out about the bubble machine?.
Excellence is its own reward!
I wasn't laughing then. Adhesive down, flooring starting to go on, furnace kicks in, and the vinyl pops up like Marilyn Monroe's skirt. Once the furnace was off, I chased bubbles most of the night.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
NickNuke'em -
Thanks so much for the very detailed pointers.
Do you have a preference for any type/brand of leveler ?
Some seem to come in powder form that is mixed with water to create a slurry, sortof like plaster.
One bath has wood subflooring and the other is on slab.
Haven't checked but the wood subfloor may be diagonally laid lumber with black paper over.
Thanks again.
Henry 547, powdered, mix with water or Henry 547 additive. Use a 1/2" drill with a paddle (or something similar) to mix it with.
The black tar paper is a royal PIA to get up. Get a heat gun and several painter 5-in-1 tools. Heat the black stuff, use the painters tool to scrape it up. It's not a fun process. Round up some of your worse enemies and coerse them into doing it for you.
Last tar removal floor I did, I got as much of the stuff up as possible, then laid down a generous overlay of leveler to bury the black stuff. Sand, cover with underlayment, second coat of leveler. Sand some more. For tar floors, I double the price. Lotta work.
For the wooden floor, repair any damage, check to ensure it's nailed off and solid, then cover it with underlayment (a siding nail gun with ringshanks makes quick work of the underlayment process. And make sure the nail heads are slightly below the surface of the underlayment to prevent crowning when sanding following putting down the leveler.) I try to minimize the number of pieces of underlayment. Often I make a template of the floor and use that to cut out the underlayment. Use a hole saw for a clean edge around pipes and be as accurate as possible, the floor will look better. It's tempting to leave gaps, but the leveler will fill them and may shrink on you, leaving a noticable straight line depression after its dry.
Lay on the leveler and when dry (you might have to wait 12-24 hours, depending on how thick it is and the relative humidity, using a fan helps,) sand. I use a random orbital sander with 80-100 grit for fine or finish work, a belt sander to prep it for the RO. Put a fan in a window, use a dust mask, and change sandpaper often. Vacuum often, your sander will thank you.
It's a good idea to take an awl to the subfloor around the toilet flange, check for rot. If your toilet flange uses hanger bolts and the subfloor is rotted to where they won't grip, excavate the rot and fill with epoxy or-my personal favorite-bondo. Use a rotary tool like a dremel with a rotary rasp, it cleans out the rot quickly. I wait and sink the bolts during toilet replacement, to ensure proper placement.
It's 12 am and I'm writing about toilets. Which reminds me, I have to replace one tomorrow in the bathroom I'm working on now. So it's early to rise.
Good luck.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Edited 6/14/2003 12:12:57 AM ET by NickNuke'em
NickNuke'em -
I am not certain what I will encounter as underlayment when the old flooring is lifted.
You mentioned a layer of underlayment sheeting between coats of levelers in your earlier post, which sounds very very thorough, but I may not have enough room with the floor height.
I'll read up on levelers, especially the Henry brand.
There's probably plenty of do's and don'ts.
Can't thank you enough for your very helpful suggestions.
always always remove the toilet when reflooring a bathroom, its much quicker than trimming the flooring around and a new seal is never a bad idea at any time and a new flexline for the supply makes it easy
Thanks, Steve -
My thought seems to be in line with the general wisdom.
Posted the question out of curiosity on if it's not unusal for folks to encounter flooring trimmed around the commode base, with dire consequences mentioned at this thread.
As for the flooring detail along the tub edge, I would have never thought of using flexible synthetic 1/4 round. I'm definitely going to use this tip.
Edited 6/14/2003 3:28:07 PM ET by Ahneedhelp
you're welcome, trimming around the tub is always the toughest part, ive even removed the cabinets as well to do the flooring underneath, chances are its just a couple of screws and a bead of caulking, might save a lot of aggravation
re - ive even removed the cabinets as well to do the flooring underneath,
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Yes, that seems to be the sensible route in my situation.
I have to replace the countertop and sink anyway.
I am not looking forward to trimming around the bathtub...