Replies

1. 
   tooth_heavy | Nov 05, 2001 12:58am | #1

   *
   yes sir! careless nailing is indeed a problem and should be avoided, it is wasteful and does cause splitting and will weaken any structure. however lumber quality does contribute to this. maybe your builder should pay more attention to his/hers carpenters nailing skills, and also to the quality of his/hers linear.

1. 
   GACC_DAllas | Nov 05, 2001 02:10am | #2

   *You don't deserve to pay for that at any price.That's unacceptable carpentry work and should be replaced at no cost to you.Stand your ground.Don't let them patch it. You're not buying a "patch job". This is your home.Ed.

1. 
   Greg_Warren | Nov 05, 2001 03:15am | #3

   *Please put down your football, golf and world series game 7 and respond to my questions before I fall off the leaderboard. But don't bug me because the Chargers game is close. GW

1. 
   Terry_Smiley | Nov 05, 2001 03:34am | #4

   *Greg What answer do you want? How do you get it fixed? You already have that answer. We appreciate your situation. We've all been the victim of shoddy workmanship. I sense that you're feeling out of control in this situation. So figure out how to get in control. There's your answer. Need more help. Think about the ways you control people, Money, Their boss, Their wife, Food, Government intervention, Screaming really really loud. You get the idea.Seriously, you're in charge whether you realize it or not, exercise your power.Go back to your game and enjoy. This to shall pass!Tight linesTerry

1. 
   Joe_Hennessey | Nov 05, 2001 03:56am | #5

   *OK, the Chargers are done losing. Monday morning tell them to tear off the roof and replace the damaged rafters. Throw out the damaged materials and do it right. Would you expect someone to accept a floor with the nails showing where you had screwed it up? Joe H

2. 
   Greg_Warren | Nov 05, 2001 04:29am | #6

   *For the record, the house just finished framing and roof sheeting. Tar paper the roof tomorrow. Will get some pictures tomorrow to post. GW

3. 
   piffin_ | Nov 05, 2001 04:51am | #7

   *No sense wasting time papering when they'll ruin it by backing out all those nails

4. 
   Terry_Smiley | Nov 05, 2001 05:09am | #8

   *No problem PiffinGo get the nail eraser and framing white-out outta the truck. Or how about.....Terry

5. 
   Joe_Hennessey | Nov 05, 2001 06:08am | #9

   *Greg, if you don't do something about it now, you are going to look up every time you walk by. You're pissed now & you'll be pissed every time you look up. Tell them to fix it now, before it's too late. Five years from now you'll still be looking up, but it'll be too late. Joe H

6. 
   blue_eyed_devil_ | Nov 05, 2001 01:23pm | #10

   *Anytime you use rough lumber for a finished product, it's going to look rough.Back out the nails, glue/fix the splintered rough framing lumber, replace blocker boards as required, and paint.Next time, for 622.5k, use a closed cornice. Rough roof members don't finish out well no matter who frames it. blue

7. 
   Jim_Walters | Nov 05, 2001 03:14pm | #11

   *I'm wondering why you'd have any rough framing showing at all in a house like this.....unless it's a really rustic design, even then the ones (all-cedar) that I've built are always finished .......the only rough exposed should be a beam poking out or something like that.Can you get a third party involved? an Arbitrater? to help iron out the differences with your contractor?

8. 
   Greg_Warren | Nov 05, 2001 04:57pm | #12

   *Blue, This home is a production house by Centex on 2 acres. I agree that it will have a somewhat rustic look under the eave, but not lumber that over time will open up and need to be repaired or replaced by the homeowner at a later date with costs. Checks, badly splintered pieces and protruding nails are an element of choice by the installer to grade out on finished framing. Also some of the sill plates screwed down to the concrete are completely split in half in some places with nails placed through the 2X to hold it together. Is that standard practice? I'll get pictures of this today and post tonight. Jim, I don't believe I've seen a closed cornice on a production in So. Cal. Only in the high end custom. This house is a mix of brick/stucco. I'll get a picture of the model. GW

9. 
   blue_eyed_devil_ | Nov 06, 2001 03:37am | #13

   *Greg, I can pretty well imagine the quality of the framing and the quality of the lumber package. I've seen some of the lumber that the discounters pass off. I have trouble burning some of it. The ironic thing is that every cheap production builder, and their clients, want a perfectly straight product, but they send crooked raw materials. They complain the loudest about niggly little details. I stand by my original statement. Have the nails pulled. Put some costruction adhesive on the splits and paint. It'll be better than rustic!blue

10. 
    Greg_Warren | Nov 06, 2001 04:51am | #14

    *These are some of the pictures of typical eave flaws and a split sill plate. "The quality goes in before the name goes on" -Centex Homes

11. 
    piffin_ | Nov 06, 2001 05:33am | #15

    *The 1x8 t&g is short of the valley. Another split or checked. post #15#17 could be fixed with glue, clamps and screws.Nailing and stud quality is poor choice to my mind. Am I right in understanding Six hundred twenty two thousand, five hundred dollars for crappy stuff like this? How big the house?

12. 
    Greg_Warren | Nov 06, 2001 05:40am | #16

    *Piffin, The house is 3750 sf single story w/ 5 car garage on two acres in a gated tract of 70 homes ranging from 3300 to 6500 sf. A 10,000 sf French country club house for parties w/ three tennis courts in Fallbrook, CA.I will be working the super to replace the blocking and patch and fill the damaged rafters tomorrow. I guess I am the supers super. GW

13. 
    piffin_ | Nov 06, 2001 06:03am | #17

    *That's just super, Super.;>)I'd have them do something with the sole plate too. We use a double sole in most applications but we do a lot of overkill. You might consult with the building inspector about that one if it needs correction and how. Those tiedowns make it look like a seismic zone, so that plate is critical

14. 
    Mike_Smith | Nov 06, 2001 07:18am | #18

    *greg.. you've got a custom home being built by tract builders...they're doing the best they know how.. it just ain't good enough...if you want custom.. you've got to hire custom....ain't bad for tract , though...looks like lots of work for the remodelers in your area....b but hey, whadda i no ?

15. 
    lonecat | Nov 06, 2001 07:51am | #19

    *Take more photos! That house would cost about 185 in my part of Arkansas, and I don't think anybody'd pay for that busted bottom plate.

16. 
    Greg_Warren | Nov 06, 2001 08:20am | #20

    *Mike, Most of the high end tract homes or as "they" like to call them, "semi-custom", are being built pretty well. I was allowed to orient the homes placement with a south face, move the air conditioners from behind the master bedroom wall at our headboard to next to the garage 50 ft away, and redesign a doorway to the kitchen with an 8 ft opening with drywall (no jamb as in the model at 7 ft). I will have to keep on them though. I go by everyday to check on things, and they know it. GW

17. 
    Keith_C | Nov 06, 2001 03:40pm | #21

    *Actually it looks good for a cookie cutter production house. Those exposed eaves, well , we haven't seen them around here since the 50's. (and everyone covers them with vinyl soffit, cause painting them every other year is a pain) If this thing costs over 600K, what can the guys building it be making? Is it mexican day labor or what? They are probably being paid by the foot or some other assinine way, and they have to feed their families also. If you want the ultimate, you have to be willing to pay the ultimate price(relative to your location)

18. 
    Greg_Warren | Nov 06, 2001 04:40pm | #22

    *What does it cost to install vinyl soffits if I wanted to do that at a latter date?

19. 
    Jim_Walters | Nov 06, 2001 06:56pm | #23

    *I don't think it looks that bad (as in structure failure) but the busted plate is a bit strange. There are bolts on either side of the break though so it's probably ok. A lot of that kind of cracking depends on the wood. Speedo kilned...yellow pine...etc.It's a shame for that kind of money they don't even cover the rough with soffet. In NE Ohio you can get a mini-castle for that price. Bring your six hundred G's up here and I'll build you a dream house.

20. 
    Keith_C | Nov 06, 2001 08:29pm | #24

    *Around here(NE Ohio) we can get vinyl soffits done for under $200 per sq.(100 sq./ft) labor and material. Sooo in SoCal dollars that would be a few grand I would imagine.

21. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Nov 07, 2001 02:31am | #25

    *Greg, those flaws are just about what I imagined. Your expecting a lot if you thing that rough lumber is going to look like finished lumber. I call that unrealistic expectations.Is there a model that you bought from? If there is, and they have better exposed finishes then I'd expect more. I'm willing to bet that the same flaws are on the models.The sole plate is meaningless. That particular flaw is because of a knot. There isn't any stress factors that would dictate a continuous bottom plate. If there were, you wouldn't be able to cut the plates out for a door. If it makes you feel better, have them place a block over it and nail it up. It won't make the house better, but you'll feel better.Have the splits filled and repainted. Ask for the exposed nails to be removed and patch with putty or glue, and repaint. If I ever decide to build homes, I'm heading for your area...blue

22. 
    Joe_Hennessey | Nov 07, 2001 03:24am | #26

    *Blue, in his area I'll bet $150,000 of that price is for permits/developer fees. Joe H

23. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Nov 07, 2001 04:42am | #27

    *Ouch Joe....I'm heading the other way...I'd shoot myself before I'd deal with that bureacracy.blue

24. 
    Greg_Warren | Nov 07, 2001 05:08am | #28

    *Blue, I looked over the model and found no cracked, checked or split blockers. No nails exposed. That is what my beef is about with the homebuilder. The average age of the framer that worked on my house that day was probably 22. Where are the old guys when you need them? Thanks for the comment on the plate. That's behind me now. GW

25. 
    Greg_Warren | Nov 08, 2001 04:54am | #29

    *The builder removed the cracked, split and checked blockers in the eave today and replaced with good pieces. Also, he cut out the cracked sill plate and added more cripples on each side of it. GW

26. 
    Keith_C | Nov 08, 2001 05:07am | #30

    *AAAH HAAA...VICTORY!...now.. which one of yous is the hacker building this overpriced shack? C'mon, fess up, it's one of yous out there on the coast.

2. 
   Greg_Warren | Nov 08, 2001 05:07am | #31

   *
   The home that is being built for me I think has some quality control problems with the framing at the eaves. Whoever nailed the shiplap 1X6's over the rafters at the eave shot alot of nails through and out of the sides of the rafters. Alot of the rafters at the eave are split due to this action. Alot of the blocker boards between the rafters at the eave are also split or checking. This eave is open style. I think the framer should replace the offending boards and pull the nails that are extruding through the rafters. Am I right or wrong? Or should I just expect the painters to fill, sand and paint to correct? At $622K I think that I should get better work on the finished products. GW