I’m looking for information, suggestions, instructions on installing a radiant heat system in the concrete floor of a two car garage I am building in the spring. I would like to do it myself, is it that complicated/difficult ?
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If you just do a general search (google or whatever) on the web, you'll be amazed at the quality and variety of information you will get on this topic.
Or, try:
http://www.radiantpanelassociation.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1
try http://www.radiantec.com
One caution about RFH for a garage; Unless you are out there a lot, you will be wasting plenty of energy keeping that slab warm 24/7. The response time will be very slow with all of that thermal mass, so it cannot be turned on just for occasional use.
Hydronic heating is more complicated than one might imagine.
If you are serious about becoming a hydronics expert, the is THE book to start with:
http://www.hydronicpros.com/Publications/MHH2/MHH2.htm
I think that really depends a lot on the climate. I've found one of the "tricks" to keeping a car running well a long time is warm-up time. That is getting a car started in 20 below weather is a lot harder on the car than getting a car started at 70 degrees.
It can take several minutes for the oil to thin out enough to be pumped around the engine at really cold temps. That's several minutes where nothing has any oil to protect the wear surfaces. Anytime there is metal to metal contact there is going to be wear. That wear is the start of failure and since it is so costly to overhaul an engine nowdays that usually is the death knoll of the vehicle. Owning a car that lasts a decade or more can easily save you more than the energy costs of keeping a garage warm.
Purely in terms of caring for your vehicle, it's probably more effective and less expensive to install a block heater than to heat your garage 24/7. A switch to synthetic oil and a prelube pump could be wise investments too, if startup wear is a concern.
I suspect that the reason most people heat their garage is for their own comfort."Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."Jon
I use synthetic oil and while it is an inprovement there still is a period where the engine runs without oil pressure making it to all parts of the engine that need lube. As for block heaters, the experiance we have at our shop indicates that block heaters may or may not help at all.
Often the lower radiator hose is used and in that case the water in the radiator can get nice and toasty while the block remains frigid, (protected by the thermostat), in addition at least once a week during the really nasty weather somebody calls us and asks a mechanic to bring along a new block heater and maybe even the engine hood.
I wouldn't ever trust my wife to remember to remove the cord on any of our cars let alone the daughters.
You are correct in that we heat the garage for our own comfort (tuck under garage) not having fridgid floors really helps as well as helps with the heating bill. Heat rises so if the garage is warm then the floor above is warm. In addition the garage is also my shop and I can go into the shop in my stocking feet if I need something from the car.. Never have understood why tuck under garages aren't the norm and why many have seperate garages..
Well, yeah, synthetics don't CURE the startup lube problem. But, neither does warming the oil. They both improve viscosity, but the only way to get oil to (most of) the engine before startup is to use a prelube pump. Those don't have to be unplugged.
I'm surprised you've had such problems with block heaters. We depended on them for years - it was the only way to get the diesel tractors started in the winter. They worked like a champ. I guess it's like everthing else - "your mileage may vary."
No doubt that the heated slab is convenient and comfortable. That comfort and convenience might justify the added expense, but I suspect the benefit of warming your engine oil is kind of an added bonus.
Doesn't code require a fire-rated door between the garage and the house, but allows you to build a living space directly above the garage? That's curious. Maybe I'm missing something there. "Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."Jon
Doesn't code require a fire-rated door between the garage and the house, but allows you to build a living space directly above the garage?
I had to rate 2,900 s.f. of ceiling above our garage, required by code and at the time all spaces concealed over 20 feet had to be fireblocked, and provide rating around beams and columns. Code still requires rated ceilings between garage and living space above.
Thanks arrow. Knew I had to be missing something there."Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."Jon
"It can take several minutes for the oil to thin out enough to be pumped around the engine at really cold temps. That's several minutes where nothing has any oil to protect the wear surfaces. Anytime there is metal to metal contact there is going to be wear. That wear is the start of failure and since it is so costly to overhaul an engine nowdays that usually is the death knoll of the vehicle. Owning a car that lasts a decade or more can easily save you more than the energy costs of keeping a garage warm."
While cold startups are bad, it's never really minutes to oil pressure. Can indeed take several seconds. Around here, most cars die when consumed by rust, or have some serious none-wear engine event (like overheating). Rare for a well-maintained motor to die from wear alone before the rest of the vehicle becomes unviable in some other way. I've run several cars (nearly literally) into the ground on original motors running fine. My daily driver has 240k mi. and runs sweet. On the corrosion front, a heated garage speeds up the reaction.
I once had a turbo-charged car on which I fitted a pre/post luber. It's an electric motor that pressurizes the oil before the motor starts. For turbos, it runs after shutdown as well because the turbine continues to spin for several minutes with no oil pressure. Certainly takes less energy and costs less than heating an entire garage for 10 years.
If we knew where you lived it may be easier to direct you to a source (that is the plus side out of filling in the info boxes).