Hello. I have a silly question. I have left my smoke detector on the wood cutting board in the kitchen for about a year now. I have been meaning to re-install it (I know, I know). Anyway, I am going to install it today, but then got to thinking about the radioactivity danger left to the cutting board. Am I being a worry wart or should I throw out the cutting board to be safe?
THANKS!
The Worry Wart
Replies
its totally safe
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two ways to screw up concrete 1) concrete driver 2) concrete finisher
e-mail me an I'll send you my address for 'proper disposal'. Prepaid post of course!
If the board is not in good condition, just burn it.
Seriously, you can go on the internet and REALLY educate yourself on rad danges and non-dangers.
Start at looking for links to the amount of carbon 14 in your cutting board!
PS: See this is only your 4th post, some (not me very often) do some hazing of 'new guys". WELCOME. There is everybody on this board from heart surgeons to nuclear physicists - and some who profess to be all of the above! <G>.
You should get lots of offers from folks to get rid of your board by sending it to them, remember I was FIRST!! <G>
Just had this discussion with someone this weekend who is in nucular medicine. He runs radio active tests on patients.
Cannot remember the iccotope but he told me it can not even pass throught alunium and can only travel an inch. I think inside the dector it is housed in Al. Don't ask me how the thing work though. So your fine.
Edited 1/16/2008 1:21 pm ET by wallyo
Well I'm gonna jump in here. I'm always reading things on Breaktime, but basically I keep quiet and learn a lot. I don't post that often, but this is right up my alley...sort of...
Yes, the radiation from a smoke dector is harmless.. A TV probably emits more radiation. The isotope is Americum 241 (Am-241 ). Actually, it's Americium oxide which emits a harmless alpha partical that ionizes that air between 2 electrodes. When smoke is present it absorbs the alpha particals and interrupts the current tripping the alarm.
And I'll bet that waaaayyy more than anyone ever wanted to know about smoke detectors.Steve
"If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be called research." Albert Einstein
harmless yes,
just don't try taking them to a scrapyard near a DOE research lab, a real bad idea.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Thank you.
A knowlegeable voice is very appreciated in this vast wilderness.
Am-241 is also a gamma emitter...not a big deal, but it is the single largest, non-medical, anthropogenic source of ionizing radiation most of us are ever exposed to.Since lives saved (by the ionizing radiation produced by smoke detectors) are 1000's of x's greater than the number of cancer deaths attributed to Am-241, I don't mind having that Radionuclide in my house.
it can not even pass throught alunium and can only travel an inch
That would be alpha radiation, Wally and it's emitted by several isotopes including Uranium-238, Thorium, etc.
IIRC, smoke detectors use one of the Thorium isotopes and it's encapsulated so it can't go anywhere. Your smoke detector could sit on your cutting board until the 12th of never and not be a problem.
It's not Thorium in smoke detectors, but rather Americium-241 and it is both an alpha and gamma emitter. Gamma decays are minimal enough to pose no significant danger.
Americium-241 is both an alpha and gamma emitter. You do recieve a small dose of ionizing gamma...not enough to be of concern though...since you get far more radiation from your food, not to mention the sky above and earth below.
It all depends on which way you've had the detector oriented over the last year.
Face up with air circulating around it? You're fine.
Face down? You've not only contaminated your cutting board, but your kitchen cabinet and possibly the floor beneath it. In that case you'll probably want to renovate the entire kitchen, after you call in a properly qualified abatement squad.
Seriously, see either of these links to make you feel better:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_233.html
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=340
And welcome to BT :)
It should be a contained isotope, so no spread of radiactivity/contamination is expected.
Now, if you have a Colman lantern mantle, them suckers are (were?) HOT. We used to use them as contamintion sources (sealed in a plastic bag) during radioactive emergency drills when I was at Radiological Controls Division in Pearl Harbor. Freaked out more than a few unknowing people.
If the isotope is contained, all you need to worry about is the radiation exposure from the source, which is almost negligable. Were the isotope be released, your biggest problem now is contamination ingestion, via airborne or swallowing. Alpha radiation (same size as a helium atom, positively charged) will not travel far, but creates significant biological damage in the short distance it does travel.
So don't swallow your detector.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Thanks all who responded. I greatly appreciate it and feel much better now. I will keep the board for those who solicited me! Thanks again,
Steve
the detector does have a radioactive peice, but i doubt that it woul effect the board
"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail"
make a very small hamburger and place it on that spot if it 's cooked by next week .don't eat it...
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
I before E, except after C,
Or in the sound of A,
As in "neighbor" and "weigh".
I gotta get outta here.Too many nuclear fizzicists and spelling teachers all in won place for us normal people.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, poooor you..I think you probly spell pretty good...
are you an english teacher? remember way back 2nd post of tool nicknames you critisized my spelling of recipricating? ;)
"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail"
well then, larn to speil "reciprocating" darnit!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
lol
"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail"
The world is made up of many things with naturally occurring radiation: the sun, the human body, banannas. A little radiation is a good thing.
A little radiation is a good thing.
But a lot can kill ya...
Ask them folks over at Hiroshima. Or Cherynoble.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
My father-in-law "chased" radioactive clouds in Nevada when they did the bomb tests in the fifties (he worked for Public Health Service)--he has some fascinating stories. Anyway, he attributes his good health to having been exposed to radiation.
Not a shining moment for nuclear testing. At least they took it underground not long after.
As for radioactive clouds and their health effects, I'd keep my distance, if possible, and gamble with fate.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I'd keep my distance, if possible, and gamble with fate
Too true. Keeping away from mixed airborne particulates probably good even when not ionizing.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Smoke detectors have caused cancer in laboratory rats in California when a rat eats more than 5 smoke detectors per day. Of course this has only occurred in CA so unless you live there you will be OK.
.... edited for spelling ....
Edited 1/16/2008 7:09 pm ET by Matt
Radioactivity is, in general, neither 'contagious' nor can it be transferred to other items.
Think of it as light ... just as shining a light on a counter will never make the counter itself start giving off light ... setting a radioactive source on a counter will not make the counter radioactive.
Hmmm, what about that Russian spy that tracked whatever isotope all over Europe. Some forms of radiation, like light, can not be "spread", but radioactive particles can be highly mobile and tracked around like sawdust.
I know nothing about the story you refer to. It seems, if he was tracking the isotope .... any readings were from it ... that is, sort of like following a light as it moves about. Or, are you claiming the isotope somehow left a trail behind it? Now, that would be quite an accomplishment, and I'm eager for the details.
google Alexander Litvinenko. He was poisoned about a year or so ago, he lingered for a few weeks before they figured out he was poisoned with some isotope or another. If I remember correctly, they followed a trail of contamination all over Europe, trying to track down the source.
Not worried about my smoke detector... unless you are sleeping with it on your forehead I guess.
A client that had lieukemia (died of it 10 or so years ago), said that some researchers had linked it to a genetic predisposition coupled with exposure to certain magnetic fields hastening its progression. Said it could have been his clock radio beside his head while he slept... and or the hydro mast coming into the house nearly precisely adjacent to where he slept.
His rationale was that we are controlled by tiny electric currents and fields... when you mess up those currents we can expect trouble of some kind.
Long story short... I moved my clock radio.
Don't care whether it's a legit concern--Be damned if I am getting taken out by something so stupid.
Ohh.. and Litvenenko--It was in a sushi bar they apparently doped his miso or tea with the radioactive stuff.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
I am guessing the assassins used some kind of powered polonium-210 and were somewhat messy with it. Nothing I read indicated why the radiation should have been spread around as much as was indicated:From http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/11/24/uk.spypoisoned/index.htmlLONDON, England (CNN) -- Traces of radioactive material that apparently killed a former Russian spy investigating the death of a Russian journalist were found at places where he ate and met other spies just before falling ill, British authorities said Friday.In a statement released after his death on Thursday, Alexander Litvinenko blamed a "barbaric and ruthless" Russian President Vladimir Putin for the attack. Putin called the death a tragedy, but accused opponents of "political provocation."Experts from the British Health Protection Agency, called in after radiation was suspected in the death on Thursday of the 43-year-old, confirmed that a large dose of polonium-210 was found in Litvinenko's body.(Watch how radioactive material apparently killed ex-spy Video)A London restaurant and parts of a hotel Litvinenko visited before falling ill on November 1 were closed Friday as police continued their probe, Scotland Yard said."Traces of Polonium-210 were found at the Itsu sushi restaurant in Piccadilly, the Millennium Hotel, Grosvenor Square, and at Mr. Litvinenko's home in Muswell Hill, London," Scotland Yard said in a statement. "We are not prepared to discuss further."
For some reason this discussion reminds me of when I was a kid viewing the "atomic ring" that my cousin had. Back in those days (circa 1950 or so) there were a lot of premiums offered on the back of cereal boxes that required sending in a form cut from the box along with 50 cents or so. Most of these things were far less than they were hyped to be, including the "atomic ring". If you went into a dark closet long enough to get your eyes adjusted to the dark and then peered into the ring, you could see a few bright lines caused by the radiation traversing whatever material they had in the ring chamber. Not really very exciting, but momentarily interesting to a 10 year old before the days of TV and computer games...What is more interesting is the price of these things today on the collectables market - $246 for an atomic ring:
http://www.hakes.com/item.asp?Auction=186&ItemNo=36626Sheesh, if my mom hadn't thrown all that stuff of mine out when I went to college, I'd be rich today...
but radioactive particles can be highly mobile and tracked around like sawdust.
You're talking two different things. There is a difference between radiation, which renostieke was talking about, and contamination, which is radioactive dust or particles in an uncontrolled environment. In the nuclear world, contamination is defined as radioactive material in an unwanted location.
You can have radiation without contamination; the source in the smoke detector is a good example, or the chest x-ray you might receive.
Contamination can be spread - it's like sawdust, as you said - and it also emmits radiation. The danger from contamination is the exposure of its radiation to your bare skin, or worse, being inhaled/ingested, which would allow the radiation to cause more biological damage, depending on radiation type.
I don't know the details of the spy story. There are two potential radioactive dangers I can think of. If the isotope ingested was strong enough, then people near him would be exposed to the radiation being emmited. The other problem would be the radioactive 'contamination' by the man's own discharges. Again, depending on the isotope and its half life, whatever he pees, poops, spits, could all be radioactive, which would be contaminated, which could be spread around, exposing others to its radiation.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Radioactivity is, in general, neither 'contagious' nor can it be transferred to other items.
Not true. When bombarded with certain types of radiation from a radioactive source, certain material's atoms/molecules will become 'excited', in orther words, they become unstable due to the additional energy/particle of that radiation. In order to become more stable, they emit radiation. They have become radioactive.
The fission process is a classic example. U-238 is bombarded with a neutron source, it absorbs the neutron, becomes unstable, and splits, also emitting neutrons and gamma radiation, which is the energy that heats the primary coolant in a reactor.
By definition, anything that emits radiation to become more stable, is radioactive.
There once was an experiment to make gold from lead, since theoretically if Pb gained neutron/s it would have the molecular properties of gold. The lead became radioactive gold with a half-life of microseconds, which immediately emitted radiation to become more stable, back to lead. Once all the molecules are at a stable state, it is no longer radioactive.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
That depends on whether you are an adherent to the 'wave' theory of light or the 'particle' theory.
depends on whether you are an adherent to the 'wave' theory of light or the 'particle' theory
Photons rather handily cover both of those. Works with the existing evidence we have. Like the "lens effect" of gravity sources, and such. That, and particles can act as waves, just as water molecules do.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
well, if your cutting board develops cancer it would be the first!
but if you live in California, it increases the odds a tiny bit
;)
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Your cutting board has not become more radioactive than it already was. It has always contained radioactive C-14, K-40, etc. at background levels.
The Americium-241 does emit both alpha and gamma radiation, but this does not make any object around it radioactive.
Americium in smoke detctors is the most significant, non-medical, anthropogenic source of ionizing radiation that most of us are exposed to, but it is far less radiation than we recieve from Radon and cosmic sources...even our food emits far more radiation.
be wory wort....
about something else...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
If you are still afeared I would suggest a tin foil or aluminum foil hat. Fortunately this subject has been discussed at great lenght here and you should be able to find considerable help in the design and installation of said hat.
but then got to thinking about the radioactivity danger left to the cutting board
Take about a two-hour flight to somewhere and back--that ought to even things out.
That, and try to remember to not chop neutron-absorbant foodstuffs on that board.
like his fingers ?.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
like his fingers ?
Hey, the dahmer jokes are elsewhere <g>.
Hmm, keloid tissue, like fingernails, have been shown to 'concentrate' elements from the heavier end of the periodic table. But, that would be as true of iodine, lead and the like, as for reactive products of Am ionization.
That, and nobody really wants fingernail clippings in the salad anyway (keep those fingers out of the grater! <G>)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)