I did a search in the forum but didn’t come up with much on the subject.
I waiting to hear (by e-mail) the results on a Radon test for our basement.
Bought a Kidde test kit and did a 48-hour test.
I would like to find out how serious this is or if it’s overblown hype.
If the test comes back with alarming levels, is this something that needs a government certified agency to swoop in and take over the operation ? (= out of control expenses.)
I have seen radon mitigation setups in houses, which seems to consist of a series of large PVC piping with a continuously running fan drawing air out of the basement. Simple enough but not sure if there is a lot more involved that I am missing.
Thanks for any feedback,
Alan
Replies
If the 48-hour test comes back "positive" then I'd recommend you do one or two long-term tests to better better data.
Get the results from the long-term tests, then see what course of action (if any) you should take.
I put radon tubing under every basement slab in new construction. The stubs are capped ans left to sit until (and if) needed down the road. Additional cost for new construction is minimal. Fixing a problem in an existing house can be done several ways...still, wait for the test results.
The only time you may have to do anything is for resale. Often times homeowners do nothing until they place their radon-laden house on the market, as the house may not sell, or they may not get their price, or a bank may not make a loan to a potential buyer, until some form of radon removal is installed in the house.
I bet you'll troll up some responses on this one! There are plenty of extremists on both sides.
As previously pointed out, a high radon level will probably have to be remedied for resale. There is a lot of radon information out on the web. A google search should turn it up no problem.
If you do need a radon system, make sure you know exactly what the installer is going to do ahead of time. The pumps aren't exactly beautiful to look at, and the default installation (around here at least) is to bolt the pump to the base of the chimney. In a lot of houses, there are alternative locations. Don't forget also that the pump is quiet, but it does make noise, so that comes in to your installation decision also.
Pete
wow, there was a lot of discussion here about Radon about a year or two ago, too bad you couldn't find that in the archives.
The allowable level of radon is not the same everywhere, Ontario Canada, The Netherlands, and Michigan all have quite different "abatement required" levels, but I don't recall now what they were (from that old discussion).
The risks of radon caused-cancer were, as I recall from my radon abatement installer, are quite a bit lower than the risk found in smoking. If I recall that conversation correctly, he had learned that smoking was estimated to be about 50 times more likely to cause cancer than the typical radon levels found in SE Michigan homes (an area that has rather high radon levels in the soil). Of course estimating things like this are very difficult because so many variables exist (no way to run truly contolled experiments with life-long exposure questions) and most people don't want to take chances when it is their family and not statistics they're thinking about.
Most modern homes have a basement slab configuration that lends itself to pretty cheap abatement. If the slab sits on crushed rock they just poke a hole in it somewhere, install the pvc pipe with a special fan and voila.
Older homes with slab directly on soil have a tougher time drawing out the air from below the slab (the whole point of Radon abatement is to create a slightly lower pressure OUTSIDE your house to draw the radon gas away from your living space) and when there is not some air flow possible under the slab they may have to install larger fans (more noise) or multiple fans (more cost).
In new construction they should run an abatement line (looks just like a sewer vent pipe) up into the attic to allow an invisible, silent install at some later date, as needed. The radon levels in soil vary a lot, even from two homes sitting right next to each other.
When done as a retrofit you usually have a pumpkin sized fan on a pipe that runs up the side of your house (some disguise the pipe with some gutter down spout material to look more natural).
If you have kids rooms, or family room in the basement you may have more interest in bothering with lowering the levels, but if you only use the basement for storage many folks decide not to worry about it (radon gas exposure takes time to have an effect, they figure).
Talk to an abatement specialist (in Michigan they MUST be licensed) and do not hire any one who trys to force anything on you, or to scare you (this advice goes for most of life, I think) so some shopping around may be called for. Most abaters will give you a quote for free, and most will do a test for free too.
hope this is helpful
Norm
I appreciate all the feedback you're giving.
It's too bad I couldn't find much in the archives - probably got wiped out after Prospero took over the site design.
As for Internet search, most of what I am coming across is alarmist commerical sites that sell their services, which in itself is ok with me but not very helpful in determining some basic preventive measures.
(For instance, there is a cinder block wall in the utility room I am going to paint over with DryLok.)
I am trying to navigate my way through the EPA site for basic information but it's going to require some time. What a tangle of web that is !
I did get an e-mail today from Kidde, which gave me a reading of 6.7 and the EPA recommended action guideline is listed as 4.0 on the report.
(Average indoor concentration is listed as 1.3.)
Based on their recommendations using EPA figures, just about every home with a basement would need some form of Radon reduction or mitigation, which seems like a Radon mitigation industry lobbyists' handywork.
And, ofcourse, they recommend re-testing with another short term test kit, preferrably with one of theirs, and includes a discount coupon for their long-term test kit.
Which leads me to my next question....are these testing/reporting operations monitored/regulated by the government ?
Alan
Radon is a risk, lead paint is a risk, asbestos is a risk, crossing the street is a risk. When transactions (ie. sale of home) are involved the government steps in and tries to quantify the risk as best it can, to minimize the exposure to the public of hidden/unkown risk and to minimize the potential for expensive and tedious legal action. Does the radon mitigation industry have a vested interest in seeing lower legal limits? Of course it does, lower legal limits translate directly into increased sales and profits. Does the industry lobby the gov't to change the limits? I don't know, probably. Does that mean radon is harmless? Of course not. Do you trust the gov't to determine safe speed limits, safe drinking ages, safe standards for car and truck tires etc.? If you do then maybe you listen when they tell you a safe standard for radon. Either way, if you are over the limit and you know it, 1) you must divulge this information when you sell (so you might as well take care of it) and 2) you are potentially exposing your family to a harmful environment that you could (with some expense) avoid.
The choice is yours.
Bill
Bill -
Thank-you for your input.
As is the case with most folks who encounter this issue for the first time, questions are being asked and the information filtered along the way.
Will this be ignored and less then appropriate measures taken ?
I think not.
Sure hope you will assume I will act accordingly and responsibly.
Based on information that I have thus far, it seems there are some very basic things I can do to perhaps lower the measured level considerably and avoid some or all of the pitfalls that you mention.
Alan
If you haven't seen these sites, they may help a bit. Nothing earth-shattering, but:
http://radontestkits.com/abate.htm
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/15/chapters/53/subchapters/iii/toc.html
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HEC/CSEM/radon/standards_regulations.html
You seem concerned with some oversight-type agency recording and reporting the findings of your test. No need to worry.
Again...you need an accurate, long-term test for the best results.
Howdy, Mongo -
re- You seem concerned with some oversight-type agency recording and reporting the findings of your test. No need to worry.
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This is hardly the case.
I am more concerned about the test being accurate and reliable with some sort of standardized and agreed upon means to make it objective and trustworthy.
Once I do know there is a problem, then I can proceed to the next step without any reservations about the validity of the test.
One thing I will do is run another short term test after taking care of a couple of details to check on the effectiveness of them, then take advantage of their discount coupon for a long term test kit.
Alan
I inferred that from this part of your previous post:
"Which leads me to my next question....are these testing/reporting operations monitored/regulated by the government ? "
A mis-interpretation on my behalf.
Good luck with your project.
re - A mis-interpretation on my behalf.
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Not at problem at all, Mongo.
Now that I read it again, I can see how it could be interpreted a certain way.
Getting ready to slap on the DryLok in the utiliy room.
Hopefully this will lower the level somewhat.
It's a start.
Alan
Hope I did not sound too pompous there, or imply that you would not chose a correct course of action. Just trying to say that there are lots of risks and some have gov't mandated measurable levels that we have to try to meet, ie. radon, speed limits, seat belts, registering guns...oh no, probably don't want to go there.
Bill
re - Hope I did not sound too pompous there, or imply that you would not chose a correct course of action.
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Thanks for the note, Bill -
No offense taken at all.
And no question the Radon level has to be at an acceptible level (or none.)
I'm just leery of having to comb through businesses and misinformation that sprout up when the government sounds an alarm.
I just hope to get a much lower reading next time.
Alan
We sold our house in WI recently and the buyer tested for Radon. It was borderline, 5.6 or so and it cost us $1,200 to have the buyer install the venting system. You can get it for $950.
There was an article in the Wall Street recently about Radon. The interesting part is, that people in Europe go to special spas to get extra doses of Radon, the health insurance pays for it. In the meantime government spends tons of money to clear it up in houses adn offices. What is right?
The search engine is your friend.
Get to know him.
One hundred responses...
http://forums.taunton.com/n/find/results.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime
Excellence is its own reward!
Thank-you, Piffin -
I hardly ever use the Advanced Search feature, which I should start using more often. Yes, it did yield 100 results.
The simple search gave only four....
I'll be more thorough next time.
Alan
I didn't know there was a simple seach. Will wonders never cease.
Oh yeah, There it is!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Well...I call it the simple search.
It's the search window that shows up at the bottom of the left hand side list window.
The Advanced Search, ofcourse, is at the top that I have to click onto.
Plain laziness I must confess.
Alan