I want to gang cut over 100 2 by 8’s 22′ long. 12/12 pitch. any recommendations to do this with either skill/chainsaw combo or some other means to save time. what is the name of the tool that will cut the ridge plumb cut at 12 to 14 inch depths?
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Prazzi beam cutter?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I think you're looking for a headcutter attachment View Image from Big Foot Saws
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
thank you! I ordered it. thanks for responding.
Yes you want a headcutter for your chainsaw. Jon linked you to the one I have and it's not bad for the money. I've had a Prazi before and I personally think they are junk. Besides, I don't think you'll get the depth of cut out of one that you need.
Then get a 10" wormdrive with a swing table to make your birdsmouth cuts.
You're probably talking about $1500 worth of saws right there though.
Diesel,
Speaking of 10" Worm Drive saws, have you ever seen one of the old 14" timber frame/ship builder Skils? They were 220v and 3-person to operate. 2-men had a sholder pole with a cable to carry it and the 3rd person operated the saw.
that sounds interesting! It would be nice to see that in operation or even a picture of it.
Don't have pictures. The last time I saw one of them being used was 1954. Cutting 12x12 posts.
I've seen just one picture of one on the internet one time. But I'd buy one if I ever came across it. I love large old framing saws. I've been trying to score an old 12" Skil wormdrive for about 8 years now and always seem to miss them by a few minutes when I call. Or the Skill 100 wormdrive.... a beast too. Only a 7 1/4" saw but they can be modified to do fantastic things that get you big OSHA fines.View Image
My favorite Skil worm drive was a 4-7/8 regular diamond arbor also about that same age. I traded a 10" band saw for it. Finely threw it away when I couldn't get parts to fix the arbor. Been kicking myself ever since. Should have mounted it as a wall hanging
Jim
I've been eyeballing those 6 1/2" skil wormdrives for awhile now. Can make pretty much any cut a 7 1/4" saw can with less weight. But I don't want to get laughed at. ;)View Image
My first job on a framing crew was for an older guy who believed in hand nailing everything. Most of his saws were 6-1/2" wormdrive Skills. I do remember them being quite nice, although I probably didn't appreciate them at the time as much as I would now.Have you tried the Fuego?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
No I haven't Jon, but it looks like a great little saw. Did you get one?View Image
THE 6 1/2 " SKILS ARE SWEET.PULL THE GUARD OFF AND IT WILL TAKE A 71/4" BLADE. SAFETY FIRST.
I'm not a safety nutbag or anything, but one thing I really don't mess with is the blade guard on circ saws. I rarely find a need to in fact. Actually the only guard I ever need to pin back is the 10" wormdrive on a swing table. When you flip it over to 70 degrees or so you can't reach the thumb lever for the guard without jambing your fingers down near the blade where you can't see.... so I pin it up just for the cut and then let it back down again.
That being said.... what does the 7 1/4" blade do for you in that saw that the 6 1/2" blade won't do?View Image
I definatly have no problems with guards either. That being said I have never used them and have never worked with anybody that used them. So for me it is safer to remove the guard as opposed to pinning it back.
As for blade size,I just buy 7 1/4"and they fit everybodys saws.
Honestly I'm not sure the 6 1/2" is any lighter than the magnums. I have one saw that I always use for stairs and roofs for the past 20 years , and it just happens to be the 6 1/2" and it's kind of molded to my hand. It's my boy.
My bags are probably 10 years old.My rigging axe is 15 years old and my favorite gun is probably 10. New stuff just doesn"t feel good in my hands. I usually pass out the new stuff.
whatever works.
Yeah that's cool fishdog. I just get curious about how other guys do things and their reasons behind it. Never know where I might pick up a new trick.View Image
View Image Here is that 2 man saw by mafell. Pull the guard off and you can get a little bigger blade in there.
I sprayed a little green paint on mine so the boys dont mistaken it for there own.
SAFETY FIRST.
LOL... yeah I've got one of 'em too but I really only use it for trim.View Image
Damm! that is a FAT cord! ( G)Parolee # 40835
Those saws are 240V 3 phase. Big cords and big muscles too. Bet I couldn't pick one up.
Joe H
Damm! that is a FAT cord!
Quotee from the "Book of thinks my wife will never say"
No, but I would probably buy one if presented with the opportunity.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
deisel,
Those 6 1/2" skil worm drives were/are real popular here.
Very slight difference in depth of cut and since most framing is done with 1 1/2" stock the only difference one notices is the fact that the 6" is a pound or so lighter and easier to handle.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
My advice is to measure VERY carefully.
2guys could mark and cut those in a couple/few hours.................
2x8's 22 feet long? You sure you're not overspanned?
[email protected]
it's a12/12 pitch and from top plate to ridge is only 20 ft. knee walls and collar ties on every set are sufficient according to my architect. and with interior wall placement ,will work.
Cool, just checking...................[email protected]
Well..I might be a dope, but I have never gang cut rafters in my life....
I cut the birds mouth and top cut....nail em up and string the other end ..mark and cut each one in place so when you sight down the finished product you don't get dizzy with all the zigs and zags.....
That kind of stuff works on paper only IMO......
I bet you that I could do it the old way with just a worm drive and beat you and all your fancy saws :-)
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
first of all, how do you know i have a bunch of fancy saws? secondly i personally wouldn 't tell anybody that i could out work them, especially if i didn't know who i was speaking to. unless i had some complex about proving my self worth. i could cut them faster with a hand saw with my feet faster than someone like you.
Lighten up sheepdip I wasn't serious
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
i pity anyone that has a different opinion than you. you say you were not serious but then you call people derogatory names when you reply back. do me a favor. when my name pops up just ignore it. from half fast to whole ####!
seriousness is a disease......I will honor your request.
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
Sorry, but that's pure bullsh1t. We don't gang cut rafters very often, but we do cut all the tails before they go up and our soffits and fascia are straight as an arrow. If you're getting dizzy with all your 'zigs and zags' then it's simply evidence of a crappy job plumbing and lining your walls. Wavy fascia and soffit (assuming you can cut straight) is just a reflection of your top plates.
"That kind of stuff only works on paper" sounds like something my crusty ex-boss would say when faced with something other than the way he's been doing it for the last 20 years.
View Image
Edited 5/11/2007 9:04 pm ET by dieselpig
I would been you're crusty old boss :)
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
>> I cut the birds mouth and top cut....nail em up and string the other end ..mark and cut each one in place so when you sight down the finished product you don't get dizzy with all the zigs and zags....<<If you get dizzy with zigs and sags, that means that you have zigs and zags in your top plates.Cutting overhangs on a scaffold makes absolutely no sense at all. Cutting the overhangs on the bench does work on paper. If your walls are straight, your fascia will be straight.Joe Carola
and your ridge beam........has to be perfectly straight and exactly the right height in relation to the walls........and your walls have to be perfect......etc....and then there's the "I gotta shim" question.Ok...whatever... I know there are more ways than one to cut rafter tails.......Most houses I built were non-trussed where a rafter either sat on a ridge beam or butted into it. I always cut rafter tails in place.....If you guys can do all that it takes to get a perfect alignment when you tie them together, more power to you but in my day most gang cutters were (the last part of my tag)....
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
>> and your ridge beam........has to be perfectly straight and exactly the right height in relation to the walls........and your walls have to be perfect......etc....and then there's the "I gotta shim" question.<<Your birdsmouth is already cut and that gets nailed tight to the outside of the top plate. If there's any adjusting to do for the ridge, it's done at the top, not at the birdsmouth. Therefore the overhang and HAP stays the same. My rafters set the ridge. I've never once preset a ridge before (not saying that you do)because all the rafters are nailed at the plate first nice and tight and the ridge will be adjuted to the rafters nice and straight.>> Ok...whatever... I know there are more ways than one to cut rafter tails.......Most houses I built were non-trussed where a rafter either sat on a ridge beam or butted into it. I always cut rafter tails in place..... <<I've done tons of rafters with ridge beams and still, the birdsmouth gets nailed tight to the top plate and any adjusting gets done at the top. Don't you nail your birdsmouth tight to the top plate first?>> If you guys can do all that it takes to get a perfect alignment when you tie them together, more power to you but in my day most gang cutters were (the last part of my tag)....<<I've never gang cutted rafters before. I cut all my overhang plumbcuts and level cuts on the bench.Joe Carola
I understand what your're saying and if that's the way you do it and it works...fine...but still I seldom have seen a framing crew who could keep walls line straight......So let's say I'm doing it your way.....all my birdmouth cuts are tight nailed on the plate and the rafters are non nailed at the top.....my ridge beam is a glue lam......say 4x12 for example.....you either have a crane.....or you have a bunch of guys grunting the thing in place......The added burden of pushing up through rafters would be a bit much IMO.I set the posts.....set the ridge beam.....any horizontal beams......then deal with the rafters......I like my rafters to be perfect fit at the ridge beam (I hate shimming stuff)..and I work out the slop at the tail.........my way works as I'm sure yours does also.PS the level cut on the tail is a PITA, but I seldom used scaffold cause of the moving around factor....
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
>> I understand what your're saying and if that's the way you do it and it works...fine...but still I seldom have seen a framing crew who could keep walls line straight...... <<I don't understand that at all. it's your crew, so then you should make sure your walls are straight.>> So let's say I'm doing it your way.....all my birdmouth cuts are tight nailed on the plate and the rafters are non nailed at the top.....my ridge beam is a glue lam......say 4x12 for example.....you either have a crane.....or you have a bunch of guys grunting the thing in place......The added burden of pushing up through rafters would be a bit much IMO. <<For a gable roof with a ridge, not a structural beam, I nail the birdsmouths of the front and back rafters in at each end and butt the top of the plumbcuts together and then slide the ridge up into them and nail the ridge off.I never said that I set the rafters first and then put a structural beam in.If it's a structural beam I will set the beam in place first on posts after I check my rafters first and see if the posts are exact. Once the beam is in place I nail off every rafter at the birdsmouth tight to the plate and if there are any adjustments at the ridge, then that's where they get adjusted, if the beam has a slight crown in it.If you don't nail the birdsmouth tight at the plate and move that in or out, you are changing the HAP cut of the rafters up and down and will give you a crooked fascia and the sheetrock lines on the inside if it's cathedral will follow and be up and down.You didn't answer my question before. Do you not nail your birdsmouths tight to the plate, yes or no? If you have a 3-1/2" seatcut, is that seatcut flush on the inside of the wall and the outside heel cut tight to the top plate? If not your without a doubt raising the rafter up and down at the plate line.>> I like my rafters to be perfect fit at the ridge beam (I hate shimming stuff)..and I work out the slop at the tail.........my way works as I'm sure yours does also. <<Again, that must mean that you get them nice and tight at the ridge but you adjust them at the birdsmouth in or out, which means that top of the rafters will be up and down for the fascia and the bottom of the rafters will be up and down at the inside of the plate-line.That's something that I would never do because it's more important to keep the bottom of the rafters even for sheetrock. I would rather adjust the fascia up or down then and keep the inside of the rafters straight.Joe Carola
Edited 5/12/2007 10:42 am ET by Framer
Hey Joe (where you goin' with that gun in yo' hand)
When you post coversations, i.e., back-and-forth comment-and-reply, try using color instead of the the little indent marks. Makes it a lot easier to follow, for me anyway. jmo. =)
>> I understand what your're saying and if that's the way you do it and it works...fine...but still I seldom have seen a framing crew who could keep walls line straight...... <<
I don't understand that at all. it's your crew, so then you should make sure your walls are straight.
>> So let's say I'm doing it your way.....all my birdmouth cuts are tight nailed on the plate and the rafters are non nailed at the top.....my ridge beam is a glue lam......say 4x12 for example.....you either have a crane.....or you have a bunch of guys grunting the thing in place......
The added burden of pushing up through rafters would be a bit much IMO. <<
For a gable roof with a ridge, not a structural beam, I nail the birdsmouths of the front and back rafters in at each end and butt the top of the plumbcuts together and then slide the ridge up into them and nail the ridge off.
I never said that I set the rafters first and then put a structural beam in.If it's a structural beam I will set the beam in place first on posts after I check my rafters first and see if the posts are exact. Once the beam is in place I nail off every rafter at the birdsmouth tight to the plate and if there are any adjustments at the ridge, then that's where they get adjusted, if the beam has a slight crown in it.
If you don't nail the birdsmouth tight at the plate and move that in or out, you are changing the HAP cut of the rafters up and down and will give you a crooked fascia and the sheetrock lines on the inside if it's cathedral will follow and be up and down.
You didn't answer my question before. Do you not nail your birdsmouths tight to the plate, yes or no? If you have a 3-1/2" seatcut, is that seatcut flush on the inside of the wall and the outside heel cut tight to the top plate? If not your without a doubt raising the rafter up and down at the plate line.
>> I like my rafters to be perfect fit at the ridge beam (I hate shimming stuff)..and I work out the slop at the tail.........my way works as I'm sure yours does also. <<
Again, that must mean that you get them nice and tight at the ridge but you adjust them at the birdsmouth in or out, which means that top of the rafters will be up and down for the fascia and the bottom of the rafters will be up and down at the inside of the plate-line.
That's something that I would never do because it's more important to keep the bottom of the rafters even for sheetrock. I would rather adjust the fascia up or down then and keep the inside of the rafters straight."I needed a drink, I needed a lot of life insurance, I needed a vacation, I needed a home in the country. What I had was a coat, a hat and a gun."
Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe
>> Hey Joe (where you goin' with that gun in yo' hand)When you post coversations, i.e., back-and-forth comment-and-reply, try using color instead of the the little indent marks. Makes it a lot easier to follow, for me anyway. jmo. =) <<Huck,I just copied and pasted your blue reply to me and it shows up black.I can't use colors with Mozilla for some reason. If you or someone else knows how I can I would love to know.Joe Carola
Joe, to do colors with Mozilla you have to manually add HTML code.This is the way I would change to color of a sentence to red:<font color=red>Example sentence...</font>You can substitute standard color names for "red" to get the desired result.Before you post, make sure you check the "Check here if HTML tags are in the message" box right below the lower post button.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,This is what I get when I try to post to someone.Construction Techniques
RAFTER CUTTING TIMESAVER
From: Framer 4:01 pm
To: in reply to 89708.45
Type in your message and clickSignature
Joe CarolaWant to e-mail someone a copy of this post? (optional)
Enter up to 10 addresses (e.g. [email protected]). Separate multiple addresses with commas.
Check here if HTML tags are in the message (not including signature).
Post to the Message Board - all members can read it.
Reply via E-Mail - only "To:" person above can read it.Jon, Thank You,it worked. Your the man!!!When I used IE, I had a separate box with all the colors in it. This has nothing.Joe Carola
Edited 5/12/2007 4:09 pm ET by Framer
Edited 5/12/2007 4:10 pm ET by Framer
Jon,
When I used IE, I had a separate box with all the colors in it. This has nothing.Joe Carola
Jon,
Can you make the letters Italic or Bold?
How can you change colors. Italic or bold at JLC?
Joe Carola
Joe,
I could explain how to utilize HTML more in depth, but
Luka has done such a good job here that I will just point you in that direction.
It may seem like a pain at first, but with a little practice you will be able to make text bold, italic, and different colors in no time.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,Thanks you, and I appreciate the link to Luka's thread.Thank you also Luka for that great explanation. I have a lot to learn.Joe Carola
<<<<and then slide the ridge up into them and nail the ridge off.>>>>Me too, if it's a 1 or 2 by on small structure............like the book says<Do you not nail your birdsmouths tight to the plate, yes or no? >>>>.I try very hard taking into consideration both sides of the rafter, to altimately find a happy middle ground before I nail them tight.....that sometimes leaves one a bit higher or lower here and there, but wood being as it is these days it's the best anyone can do IMO..As to drywall I concede there is a problem if there is too great a difference in rafter height etc.......either at the top or bottom.......I seldom used drywall as most opted for t&g cedar...as that was what we built ...p&b Cedar Homes........ I may be a dope, but I cut my tails one at a time and opt for a straight fascia board.............and I threw in the competition thing with a :-)....that means I was just kidding.............Now as to straightening walls.....everything in building has variances, walls are seldom perfect straight.....lumber is definitely not (and sometimes different widths to boot) so it's basically not the same as design on a cad system............anyway I'm a retired gentleman of leasure with a lot of happy homeowners under my belt and your way is as good as mine, but, Like old Frank Sanatra.... I did it my wayyyy.:-)
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
>> PS the level cut on the tail is a PITA, but I seldom used scaffold cause of the moving around factor. <<You do that with a 12/12 pitch rafter and a 2'overhang hanging off the roof like that? How about if you have a short overhang and the level cut goes all the way to the plate. Do you finish with a sawzall?Joe Carola
<<<<Cutting overhangs on a scaffold makes absolutely no sense at all.>>>>Who said anything about scaffold?......you just mark them, walk down the plate and zip them down .....if you stay on your lines ...you got no zigs.................after you tie them together
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
>> Who said anything about scaffold?......you just mark them, walk down the plate and zip them down .....if you stay on your lines ...you got no zigs.................after you tie them together <<That's good for cutting the plumbcut, but what about cutting the level cut. Do you hang off the top plate and do that also?Joe Carola
I saw photos of the cutting area at Levittown once. They handled this with 16" radial arm saws. Bird's mouths were cut with dado blades. They had a separate saw for each operation with roller tracks to get the material from saw to saw.
Of course, one of those saws weighs about 800 pounds.
George Patterson