Rain! Must be the bain of all roofers.
Question – how dry must 30 lb felt be before you lay shingles?
Got caight on roof this AM by sudden sprinkles. Amazed at how fast roof got wet. Folded my tent & went inside to do something productive. When can I go back up there? Roof is completely covered w/ fresh 30 lb felt.
Don
The Glass Masterworks
“If it scratches, I etch it!”
Replies
Actually, as soon as it quits. But its better if not saturated with water. I give it time to look dry and start banging.
My main problem with going up on a felted roof that was wet was how slippery it was! It also wreaked havoc with the chalk lines! But we never let it slow us down too much.
Try the search....this was discussed pretty recently.
My opinion.....damp ok, soaked not too good.
Proof of the pudding to me is that I'd bet that if you shingle a wet roof, and it sat in summer heat for two weeks and stripped it, I bet it's bone dry. Point being....the moisture gets out somehow. Only downside is that these days, the ply seems to de-lam at the drop of a hat, so wet ply may require a few spot fixes.
Bing
People still use plywood?
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I still do, lotsa guys here do.
Not sure if that's tongue in cheek because most have switched over to t&g advantech, or because a lot of guys have gone over to osb.
I'm far enough inland that I don't fall within the wind zones that require blocking, Mike Smith is 1/2 hour from me; everything he does I spect requires shear walls, blocking, 4" oc nailing, etc. For him, t&g advntch makes sense for the labor it eliminates.
I have used some osb for walls, still won't use it for roofs, partly because of it's being ka-ka if it gets wet, partly cause I don't even like walking on it 16 o.c. on a roof, and partly because I think it tends to telegraph more than ply....lines along both axis of the seams.
On the other hand, if this was just a goof question.....HAHAHA..;)
Bing
Yea was being goofy in part.I would use four ply plywood before osb, but mostly I use 5/8T&G Advantec
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Use tile dye in the chalkline. Get the powder in the cement section. Red never washes off.
My problem wasn't so much with the chalk washing off (though it did--and some colors would disappear from sun-bleaching too--though orange stayed well), but realing the wet line back in got the reel all wet and wet the chalk in the reel, making the chalk clump up and so on. Those days are behind me now--no more going up on roofs for me.
CAtfish: being so. MS, all I had to do was wait till morning. Go up & start to get organized. By then the roof had me steamed like a crawfish & the felt was dry enough to meet your criteria.
I don't know how youse guys along the Gulf Coast roof in summer. I sweat through three sets of clothing in a day, & that includes taking a several hour break during the hottest part of it & then working till dark. 'course, you can only work like that using slave labor from the family Gulag that is willing to put up w/ such abuse.
This roof has some interesting properties. It is about 30 yrs old. The attic space is/was ventilated by turbines that failed several yrs ago. Attic gets hotter than the vestibule to the SEVENTH furnace of Hades. Several sheets of ply werre so weak that when my 19 yr old grandson lifted one end they shattered in the center. Almost like they were deteriorated from the heat. If that is the case, do you have to remove all tha old sheething or can you just put another layer on top of the current? Somehow, that just seems too eawsy. I suspect that is in the future not to distant. Tough to find good shingles to merge into to keep this as a repair nstead of a total replacement.
Started out as a repair, w/ probably 2 squares of shingle replaceent. just where i replaced rafters. As the mess developed I wound up replacing enough rotted ply that it has grown to about 5 squares. total re-roof job not n budget for this yr!
DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
If the plywood is as you describe, I would take it off--as is, it is only adding dead weight! Then you can look at the rafters and see how they are. Anyway, that's what I'd do, for what it's worth.
BTW, if you are not used to roofing, I'll tell you a little thing that makes it much easier--stand on the walls between the rafters and have someone on the ground hand the plywood up to you (we used to stage it on sawhorses) longways up and down. (If there is an overhang, it is sometimes advisable to lean a tall 2x 12 or a couple 2x4's to make a parallel track) The guy on the ground grabs a piece of plywood, sort of boosts it up to get a hold on the lower part, and lifts it to you, who are standing on the wall in the eve, you grab the piece, hands on either side of the four foot top. When you have it, let the guy on the ground know so he can clear out.
You then pendulum the plywood back and forth (some people don't need to do that, as they are used to it and have enough strength) and then you twist and pitch the plywood up onto the rafters behind you. Helps if you have someone else up there to secure it, if not, either put a couple temporary nails in it to hold it, or scoot it into final position and put a couple nails in to hold it. I worked mainly from the top down, standing in the truss to nail off the temporarily pinned pieces of plywood (using nail gun). (Had previously snapped chalklines across the rafters (or truss top chords) to show where the plywood edges had to land.) When scooting plywood, you short of flap it and push, so it clears the truss chord and drags less--flopping it like a fish. The last part you want to do its the lowest sheathing at the eves, because after that, you have to stand on the plywood and that's harder and harder to get the plywood up to you.
The last crew I worked with were inexperienced; I missed a day and when I got there, they had nailed the plywood at the eves, (and this was a gambrel roof, so only place to stand once they had nailed the lower level of sheathing was to stand in the truss webs), and then it was very hard to get the next sheets of plywood--people had to walk them up on ladders! (and they were having two guys walk up parallel ladders, holding one piece of plywood held horizontally between them! Totally the hardest way to do it--then the "receiver" had to somehow grab this horizontal piece, let the guys get out of his way (or they often sort of tried to "help him" (yikes!)), while he struggled to flip the plywood up onto the roof. On the other side, I had them do it the way described in the paragraphs above this one and it went like clockwork--faster, easier, less danger, etc.
Note: If you have scaffolding or a lift to work from, you can do the eve plywood first, then you just grab sheets of plywood and walk them up the roof, hoping the wind doesn't pick up!
Danno: We had a bunch of ply to haul up onto the roof for the replacement work - about a dozen sheets in all. My 19 yr old grandson got on the roof, I lined the sheets up on the ladder & shoved till he could catch them. Worked like a charm. He could carry a whole sheet by himself (When there was no wind). Best I can carry alone is a 6 ft section of a 5/8 CDX. Just don't have it any longer. At least I can still work. Have college classmate in hosp as we speak, having a bilateral knee replacement. Personally, I'd rather be roofing.
Yes, I'm an amateur at roofing - except for driving tincaps. back when i was a teenager, I had to do the entire house my Dad was abuilding in Miami, FLA. 10,000 tin caps, at least.
I've learned a lot from advice here on FHB. Added to it from practical experience.
BTW: Next yr may be a roof replacement, including all the sheathing. My daughter will probably get me to be PM. It will be Advantech T&G. We have it for subfloor in our house in GA. Some leftover pieces sat out in the weather, unprotected for 5-6 yrs w/o any noticeable deterioration. That stuff is TOUGH!
I went to Saudi Arabia as a contractor right after GW-I, returning ammo. All te wooden pallets were realy shot after less than a yr in the desert. Was talking to a Dept of Agric guy therer checking for termites. (He showed me a couple that made a sabre tothed tiger look like a toothless old man.) Also told me that the extreme heat killed the lignum in the wood that held the cellulose together, causing the wood to lose all its strength. That's almost like what happened to this roof.
DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Wondering if there's any chance that they used pt ply on your roof. I'm thinking 30 years ago, 1979, is about the time they were using that in some damp locales.....Found later that the heat combined with the coppper chromium arsenate weakened the ply over time, drying it out to a really brittle, weak roof.
Sounds like you know your stuff, and are repairing areas otherwise damaged, but worth checking out? Would hate to find out after re-roofing that other spots were crappy 5 years from now.
Bing
EDIT: Sorry, just re-read post # 20, see that you're planning a re-do on sheathing down the line.
Edited 8/21/2009 7:55 pm ET by Bing187
Bing: Dunno about possibility of PT Ply. I haven't lookedat the printing on it. I still have a bunch of it around, awaiting a landfill run. Will look.
A total re-roof would probably cost daughter over $15,000. This is a rather large ranch. Over 3000 sq ft. I've convinced her that she should see if she can get the south side done next yr & the rest the following. The west & north sides are not nearly as bad. Also considerably smaler. I suspect that a rather large tree limb fell on the roof sometime in the last three yrs before she bought it. While looking at a suspected bad sheet of ply, I noticed that someone had repaired a hole about as large as a basketball. There were ragged splinters hanging down & it looked like they had put galvanized over the hole before replacing the shingles. Just above it was the sheet we replaced. It was sagging badly & we discovered that it was badly cracked when we got it off. This ply does seem very brittle.
That's the next project - but not for this yr. The current roof has a couple yrs in it.
Remmeber the Shelly Long flick "The Money Pit"? Well, this house is the inspiration for it. Weren't for this house, I'd have nothing to do in my dotage!
DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
I've finally had to slow down some (well, even on the job I spoke of, I had to break the bundles of shingles in half to truck them up the ladder near the end. I was the only one capable of getting shingles up the ladder and I think we had 12 bundles. (Job done with volunteers.)
What follows is a rant--sorry!:
Then when we sheathed the walls with OSB (5/8 or maybe it was 1/2), the guy I worked with wanted to grab one end of a sheet and have me or another guy grab the other end and take them over to the horses, where I would cut them to size, and then he and another guy would take them over to the wall and hold them in place while I was supposed to come over and nail them off while they held them in place. After a short time I'd had enough of that and I'd grab a sheet, flop it on the horses, cut it, put a nail in the upper edge, carry it over to the wall, set it into position and pin it in place with the nail, then add one or two more, then go and get the next sheet. Union-style work drives me nuts! It took us an afternoon to sheath the place (small--like 17' x 12'). The crew leader had us put the sheathing on the inside! (against my advice).
Later, he said when we had a chance we should take that down and re-use it on the outside, that he had been wrong! So, one day he was trying to take the sheathing down and had one kid helping him. (The crew chief had just has surgery and wasn't supposed to lift anything over five pounds!) So I started pounding the sheets loose from the outside and the kid was supposed to catch them, but was afraid to, so he's just watch them crash to the concrete floor (the sheets were from another tear down and were pretty raggedy-edged to begin with). At noon, the chief left for the afternoon and the kid never came back after lunch, so I finished sheathing the outside by myself (other than a guy coming up part way through and holding the upper ones in place for me to get a couple nails in). The chief cam back at the end of the day and helped me with the last three or four and then was upset that I had somehow pinched his extension cord when I didn't see a loop of it hanging down from the soffit and nailed sheathing over it.
He had brought a teeny table saw and insisted I use it for nearly everything. When he wasn't there, I used my circular saw for everything. That tippy, underpowered table saw with the fence not parallel to the blade was more trouble than it was worth!
I don't know how youse guys along the Gulf Coast roof in summer. its easy, its rains everyday at two o clock, so we start work at 3am
Brownbagg: You can say that again! lasterday I was up there sweating my bunns off & w/i 10 seconds I was in a downpour! Nice part about an approaching storm is the blessed relief the shade brings you for a few minutes.
Taking a lunch brek & going up to re-fry my brains & lay the last 24 shingles. Never thought I'd get there!
DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Oh yeah - ya never let a wet line staay wet in thew box. After haulking, pull it all out and leave it huing out to dry
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
With tile dye i soak my line in the colored water and then let it dry. Wind it up and fill with powder.
Roofers use red chaulk. Rain doesn't wipe it off.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Actually-- I use blue chalk MUCH more often than red--- sprecifically because the blue DOES wash off.
stephen
Red Chalk is banned on my jobsites.
Blue since it does wash off.
I use red, white, and blue - each has it's own purpose
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Roofers use red chaulk. Rain doesn't wipe it off.you mean "dead Red" nothing wipes off with red, chaulk concrete with it. its yours for life, pressure wash does not remove it
Just to nag you...
Ya shoulda used synthetic underlayment! It would have gone on faster, wouldn't have be affected by water, and has slip resistant features built in.
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Ya shoulda used synthetic underlayment! It would have gone on faster, wouldn't have be affected by water, and has slip resistant features built in.
Amen! I wouldn't use felt on a roof again if they gave it to me free.
I can see the attraction of synthetic roof underlayment from an ease of installation perspective and I can see that it would be great for an extended exposure time, assuming it holds up to the weather much better than felt, but why spend extra money on a product that replaces something that has worked fine for generations and is potentially hundreds of dollars less expensive - depending on the job size?
I've read the praises of these new underlayments here at BT but once I went and priced it, that was the end of it.
BTW - what kind of perm rating do these synthetic roof underlayments have?
I hate tarpaper!!! It's heavy, flimsy, doesn't lay flat, etc. etc. We rough in our roofs, lay underlayment and drip edge and wait for the shingling boys.
The synthetics are light years easier to work with and are very tough. They lay perfectly flat and don't wrinkle or rip. They are also easier to walk on. If I was rolling out paper 3 feet at a time in front of shingles maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal.
I can save the difference in product cost on a roof just from the time saved installing the underlayment and not have to worry about the stuff ripping in the wind or blowing off the roof after the sun stretches the heck out of it.
We were the first ones in our area to use synthetics. I heard the same thing you said from lots of contractors...until they actually tried using the product. The three largest full time shinglers all use it now and have no intention of going back to roofing felt.
Try it....you'll be convinced!
grab a broom, make a sweeping motion to get the big beads off, then start nailing
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!