Saturday; 4PM.
Went to pick up a payment check for a completed siding job and look at other work, same HO, to bid. Some unknown to me man came up when I arrived, slammed down my proposal on the table, and said “that’s a lot of money”. I said “You think so?”, He said yeah and I said “so you’re not going to pay me then?”
It was confrontational, uncomfortable and why should I bid on anything else for these people (he is not the customer and had his nose where it should not have been and I don’t even know who he is). I believe he has small man syndrome.
BTW, the completed siding job was perfect, and I did get paid.
They want me to bid on patching a set of outside stairs that need replacement. Should I “put my name on them” by patching them? The house will be for sale next year some time, I believe. It’s an estate deal with a death or something (don’t know or care to know the story). Can I qualify the patch work with verbage on my proposal?
WTF, made my day.
Thanks for being a sounding board. It’s everyone here’s experience that makes us all better at what we do.
Edited 9/10/2006 11:37 am ET by RRooster
Replies
Am I having deja vu or did I already see this same post in another thread?
Who is this guy?
Welcome to the
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where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Yes you did see this in another post. Very observant, Piffin.
Sorry if the story is confusing.
On Saturday, I went to pick up final payment for work completed (siding) and look at other work the customer wants bids on.
When I arrived, there were 5-6 people there I had never seen before; I had only ever dealt with one woman. I hadn't been there one minute when, basically, I was slammed for gouging/high price/"that's a lot of money" from someone I'd never seen before and hadn't been introduced to.
Granted, there are many way's I could have handled this situation, but what I did was instinctive; I got defensive. I thought I was being ganged up on and that they were going to try to get out of paying me. I took it personal. I take my art, my trade, my business very personal. It's more about the final product than it is about the money and my final product was perfect. I did get paid by the way.
Anyway, it was 6 on 1 and I felt a bad situation. I'm still not over it.
They/she wants me to bid on fixing a set of outside stairs and some other rot repair, which, if they thought my siding was expensive...............................Most of the rot is like 20-30 feet up and will require scaffolding ($rental$, $trips to town$ to pick it up and drop it off, etc.$) and the stairs need to be replaced for many reasons.
Should I attach my name to the stairs by patching them? or can I cover my #### through proper wording in my proposal? I can't force them to spend the money to do it right. The house will probably be sold next year some time.
I hope this problem is now crystal clear.
Sorry about the small man sarcasm.
http://grungefm.com
...only if you really need the work.
After being ganged up on and attacked and insulted that way, I would not go on the property again. Laat time anything close to that happened to me, I returned a deposit check along with a letter stating exactly why.I have also been know to respond to an accusation by staring the guy down, "Yes, it is, I charge what I am worth" I've got a fair stare when riled.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't know. Maybe they're just cheap and don't understand the value in what you're doing. Maybe you did charge too much. As long as you gave them what they wanted and had no complaints about your quality then it's all good.
As far as doing work for them again. If your hard up then go for it. But Have it spelled out word for word what you intend to do. And honor your end to the letter of the contract.
"I went to Dunkin Donuts for breakfast, and no one there was mad at me." DustinF 06'
http://www.hay98.com/
>>Should I attach my name to the stairs by patching them? No>>or can I cover my #### through proper wording in my proposal? No.Even if you had a legal defense against some transferee injured on the stairs (and that is far from clear and would only beconme "clear" after "expert" evaluation) you'd still be shelling out for the legal defense.Don't touch it, unless (i) they'll do it your suggetsed way and (ii) you feel comfortable with the azzholes in sight.
Fighting Ignorance since 1967
It's taking way longer than we thought
So who was the guy? Some homeless guy digging through the garbage can? A realative involved in the estate? You need to find out what his level of pull is.
"I went to Dunkin Donuts for breakfast, and no one there was mad at me." DustinF 06'
http://www.hay98.com/
Either that or never go back.
I don't understand... you went to pick up a check and he slammed your PROPOSAL on the table, or your INVOICE? In any case, why try to pick up a check for an amount that has not been agreed on? Was this T&M and if so did you have a signed contract for the hourly rate and markup??
As far as further work goes... no way... unless you're dead in the water and have no other options.
1. His invoice for completed work was paid without a problem.2. His proposal for new work for the same customer was dissed by an unknown third-party who is apparently short in stature.3. His real question is how to handle a situation where he feels that something needs to be replaced, while the client insists it should only be repaired.
You're probably right. It sounds like he went to look at a new job and Danny DeVito jumped all over him. I'm just not sure why he asked Danny if he was going to be paid for the siding job.
I took that as sarcasm. Kinda like when mom didn't like a car I bought, so I said, "So I guess you won't be paying for it then."
I'm thinking your summary is probably correct -
...His real question is how to handle a situation where he feels that something needs to be replaced, while the client insists it should only be repaired.
I wouldn't touch a set of stairs unless I had total confidence in the final product - way too much liability (actual or percieved) - just price the repair at 10X the replacement cost - that should take care of the issue -
"there's enough for everyone"
"Heir property" is always going to be dicey. The heirs may disagree on how to handle it, and they're each thinking how much money will be left for them when it's all over. Still, the way you tell the story, when he said "lot of money", I think you should have said, "Lot of work." You're the only one who was there, but from your account, it sounds like you may have inadvertently made the situation more confrontational than it was. His problem may have been with another heir, not you at all.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. It's very difficult to be slammed by some little know-it-all who really doesn't know anything about the trade or the business. We've all had it happen, and in times past I have tried to accomodate them only to be really burned in the end. You won't win on this one, the red flags have gone up.
That's just the way some people are, they don't think about fairness, or even their approach towards you when they do disagree on something. These parasites think of only what's in it for them. They can be the nicest people too but money does strange things to folks.
I'm up against this right now with a rather nice restoration job that would be fun to do. All the red flags have gone up on this with these people however, they keep wanting extras AND they keep trying to talk me down, so sadly I have decided to let it go and tell them I'm not the right person for it. Restoration (your rotten stairs), is a whole other animal and many people don't understand what it takes.
Hard to say, as there are so many unknowns.
Estates are a touchy subject; you need to identify who the executor / administrator is, and deal with them. Emotions can run high, as folks are feeling hurt to begin with- and it's simply amazing the creeps who crawl out of the woodwork with 'claims' and 'proposals.' Finally. payment is often slow, not happening until Probate 'closes.' Your work will be last on the list- AFTER taxes, funeral expenses, medical bills, and estate expenses.
MAKE SURE THE MONEY IS THERE!
Now, for the confrontation.... I suppose the best thing is to step back and say "I'm the carpenter- who might you be?" Hold on to the paperwork, saying "My relationship is with George, and it would not be proper to share this with anyone else; if George wants you to review it, that's his call." Even if the guy is a lawyer, he has no standing- ONLY the executor / administrator does! Be polite, calm, and firm. If you have any problem getting access to your customer, it's time to file a claim on the estate, through the court.
Maybe I'm completely missing something, but I still have no idea who this guy with the harsh words was.
If you got paid for the work you completed and the real owner of the property wants you to do some more work, why would this other guy come into the equation?
Maybe he's the husband- in that case I would politely decline from the future work. What if he's a nosy neighbor, or BIL who thinks he knows everything about everything? You have to determine what role he will play in your future relationship with your client. Maybe you feel that your client should have protected you from this guy or defended your invoice when he made his power play, but maybe the client is shy and wasn't willing to make a scene around everyone by stepping in. For all you, your client is very embarrassed and will make sure the guy never has a chance to run in to you again, who knows?
If you do a Proposal for the stairs, make sure you're doing what is necessary for them to be safe. Regardless of who the client is, you cannot afford to put a band-aid on something like exterior stairs.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"Went to pick up a payment check for a completed siding job and look at other work, same HO, to bid. Some unknown to me man came up when I arrived, slammed down my proposal on the table, and said "that's a lot of money". I said "You think so?", He said yeah and I said "so you're not going to pay me then?""
I only have the impression from what you posted.
But I never see anythign where the other 6 "ganged up" on you.
And on the face of what YOU WROTE, I don't see him "attacking you".
Also I am confused about this "proposal". Was this for the siding job that you just did or was it for new work?
Now you don't know anything about this persons background.
Now if you had gone shopping for a new car and not bought one in a while you could well make the same comment; "that's a lot of money". And it is.
And I am guessing that this job was lots of money.
Your response should have been. 'Yes it is a lot of money. Materials are expensive. (took extra work/scafolding, etc if appropriate). And it took lots of labor to do the job correctly."
They see what his response was.
....slammed down my proposal on the table, and said "that's a lot of money".
My response to such comments is, "yes....it is. Having work done by a professional is rarely cheap."
or
"Perhaps a bit high. But nowhere near what it will cost to re-do it down the road."
If this guy has any say in the matter....graciously decline future projects.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
You guys are awesome.
Even if I don't agree with all of you, I certainly respect your opinion and your input because I asked for it.
Thanks.
http://grungefm.com