I have two items I’d like feedback on. #1. New residential construction methods. #2. Specialization of labor.
I toured a row of 10 homes recently, built like big macs. They all were 1600sf 3BR 2BA specs built by a national chain. I saw them in the dry, just before drywall. Slab on grade, vinyl ext, wood framed exterior walls, steel stud interior walls, Pex piped sloppy. I am distressed at the lack of craftmanship. While I walked the street, I observed 3 pre-teen boys, babbling Spanish, setting cheap-o steel entry pre-hungs.The first guy carries a caulk gun w/ latex caulk, lays a bead on the bottom 6″ of the jacks, 2nd guy sets unit in the hole, 3rd guy sets 4 finish nails through the brick mould. On to the next “house”. Fat Daddy Gringo sits in the A/C’d van, and idles down to the next “house.” The three amigos pull the next door from the van……..you get the idea. What happened to pride in workmanship? I tell you, I’d rather deal w/ the weaknesses of a 1950’s-60’s home anyday. The real criminal never got out of the van. The poor, poor buyer.
#2 Specialization. I realize it makes sense to specialize, more efficient, easier to keep up w/ code changes, faster. Henry Ford showed us that. The problem is that I don’t want to be a paper contractor, but I am more expensive @ most tasks than a specialist. My m.o. for the last eleven years has been heavy kitchen and bath renovation, subbing only the cabs & tops. With the HD and Lowe’s offering particle board heaven, it’s becoming harder and harder to sell custom @ $225/lf…. Right now I have a dozen +/- high end customers passing me around…….not a real secure feeling. Comments? Nice guy finishes last?
Edited 7/22/2005 9:00 pm ET by Stevie Ray Charles
Replies
Curious why you chose to put a dark background on your text.
And the answer to #1 is the same as why WalMart does a booming business.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
For some crazy reason, I'm having trouble increasing the font size. I went bold because someone complained on an earlier post that I was "whispering."
This is not my beautiful wife, this is not my beautiful house, my god... how did we get here?
Edited 7/22/2005 9:02 pm ET by Stevie Ray Charles
Read the "carpenter wages" thread.
Yes, I read the carpenter wage thread, and it too sickens me.
I use a sliding fee scale. Sad sack divorcee, barefoot kids, leaky roof, almost free.....Million dollar house, 7500sf on the golf course, part year resident, $50/hr.........Only problem is the cyclical nature of referrals. I feel for the NY'er in Oklahoma......but as a realist told me, there's only so much money in print; for every inside trader dumping his shares & hitting it big, there are a bunch of folks drinking his purple koolaid.This is not my beautiful wife, this is not my beautiful house, my god... how did we get here?
I have had much luck the past couple years with referrals from past jobs I've taken on by myself. I promise only what I know I can deliver, get there on time, do exactly what I tell them I'm going to do before they sign a contract (I spell it all out) and sometimes even offer back a difference in money from the contract, (say I allow 200 bucks for a bath fixture and they only want a 100 dollar one, I remove 100 from their final bill) Talk about them having nice thoughts!!! I get referrals plenty, but it is cyclical in nature as stated.Some of the people want 50K worth of stuff installed for a couple thousand, like it'll almost install itself, I stay away from them like the plague. I may dicker some on price, but not much, usually I don't have to. I don't work cheap, but I take plenty of time to explain and comfort the prospective client before we even talk money....Dealing in upstate NY is far easier, and you can still start a renovation on a handshake and worry about the contract later...I miss that down here....If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
To answer both your questions. Money.
It makes me sick to see some of the hacks I have to compete with. I bid a job to do it right, customers understand that, but still go with some uninsured layed off coal miner to save a few bucks.
Then they bash all tradesman because they were ripped off.
It's just a matter of putting ourselves in a position to deal with customers that want it done the right way. Granted, this is alot easier said than done.
For some reason people equate quality with price only it,s bacwards low proce high quality. I hate it when theys say the other guy can do it cheaper. Unfortunately these people have no understanding of what it takes to do a good quality job. I think it's very funny when you give a price and the potential customer bashes you for your high price and goes with the "cheaper price" then calls you back to either fix it right or finish the job. The amount of aggravation the customer caused is related to the price or wether I take the job.
I 100% agree. I have some friends that work for one of those mass production builders and they build the homes for $45 per square foot. They cut corners on top of corners. Cheep,cheep, cheep... The trick is making your customer understand why they should hire you. We need to educate the public in what the difference between code minimum production builders and builders who are concerned with making a quality product.
The shame of it is, I usually have to explain the difference after the house has been bought, patched a few times, and then I want to tear it all out and start from scratch.To my past customers, I am a person of great integrity, to many new faces, its over-engineering, or can't you just patch it like they did before?
This is not my beautiful wife, this is not my beautiful house, my god... how did we get here?
Edited 7/22/2005 8:58 pm ET by Stevie Ray Charles
Edited 7/22/2005 8:58 pm ET by Stevie Ray Charles
Hey, those guys are my bread and butter. People pay me damn well to come in and rip out crappy, poorly laid out kitchens and trim for an upgrade. Its some times cheaper or break even to do it that way. the end result is a quality, cost effective product.
I'm also surprised at how many new construction remodels that come my way. those guys sitting in the AC van are only cutting their own throats. If they knew how they could get another 20% above their sale price.
So I say go ahead and buy that new $400K McMansion in a $500K neighborhood, then give me a call. I dont have enough ambition to build it from scratch but I can make some nice improvements.
I agree, it's job security. It's just much easier to do it right the first time.
This is not my beautiful wife, this is not my beautiful house, my god... how did we get here?
If the buyers don't care, why should the builders? People don't demand quality, and many buyers probably don't want to know what's hidden in the walls of that new home. All they care about is the monthly payment and the appraisd value. The same poor workmanship you describe is going into $250/SF houses around here.
Remember the dotcom crowd a few years back, the ones who collected and spent hundreds of $billions in investor's money and in the end had nothing much to show for it? In today's "new economy", they're the guys driving pickup trucks that say "General Contractor" on the magnetic sign.
I've been fixing up an old house for the past three years and have seen a good cross section of various trades. Some of the guys have been true craftsmen who don't have to be supervised - they do their work properly and have pride in it. Others have been ignorant, lazy, or both, and after a few hours I find myself wishing I'd never let them start. Licensing doesn't seem to make much difference because some of the worst have come from the "licensed, insured" crowd.
It's the customers. People are uneducated and dont know quality. That is why the big box stores (that I frequent almost daily) are in business. People go there, buy standard materials, take them home, turn them into crap and brag about it at their kids soccer game. These people couldn't spot quality if they saw me comming from a mile away.
They probably could spot poor spelling. Sorry.
>> While I walked the street, I observed 3 pre-teen boys, babbling Spanish, setting cheap-o steel entry pre-hungs.The first guy carries a caulk gun w/ latex caulk, lays a bead on the bottom 6" of the jacks, 2nd guy sets unit in the hole, 3rd guy sets 4 finish nails through the brick mould. <<
Most of us can read between the lines, but for those who can't I'm gonna fill in the blanks: No level used, no shims. If they actually used casing nails, they didn't set the heads. And those little packets of the few long screws for the top hindge: thrown away, or left so "someone else" can install them.
Edited 7/23/2005 1:23 pm ET by Matt
Builders like this are a godsend. 75% of my sales so far this year are on houses built in the last 4 years. I can't keep up and people dissatified with a new house will pay top dollar for quality remodelling work once they realize they got shafted by a spec house builder interested only in profit. Top requests:
-Rip out crappy carpet (felt OK during the showing!) and replace with hardwood floor
-Rip out vinyl floor in Kitchens & Baths and replace with tile or hardwood
-Rip out Formica countertops and replace with something somebody might actually be able to stand looking at for more than 5 minutes
-"My windows don't seem to have any trim". Rip out drywall returns and porcelain sills, case and trim out windows
-Install cabinets, storage and shelving in garage.
- One development I've been working in has front doors 16" up off the slab entryway with a 6' wide PT (unpainted) stair in between. Embarassing
-Fix drywall cracks, fix open miters on all the door trim, change out all the $5 light fixtures, install decks intead of concrete back stoops
-landscapers can't keep up with ripping out all the mulch beds with anemic azalea-holly-euonymous plantings
Remodel one house in a development, and you get 5 more leads via the client's word of mouth or the sign on your truck.
DCS Inc.
"He who xxxxs nuns will later join the church." -The Clash
Thanks everyone; I feel better already. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
Matt, you were right, no shims, level, flashing, jamb fastening, nada.....This is not my beautiful wife, this is not my beautiful house, my god... how did we get here?
>> Rip out drywall returns and porcelain sills, case and trim out windows <<
What are procelain sills?
Actually, on the more moderately priced houses I build I have the returns with drywall, and then install casing, stools and aprons. Most people would never notice.
Matt
I hear you we have the same thing going on here we get a lot of work on these fairly new houses (within 5 years). I agree it's good for business however it's bad for the whole industry.
On the surface it looks bad, paul, but look at it this way. Large builders put up loads of identical homes. We are the "custom shop". A chevy silverado is a decent workmanlike truck. A chevy silverado with recaro seats, headers, and a new chip becomes something special.
DCS Inc.
"He who xxxxs nuns will later join the church." -The Clash
Here we have several large 'housing companies'.
Customer goes into the office, chooses a plan and makes whatever mods they want. They get a price that would be very very hard to beat and leave happy.
They THINK they are getting a quality home cos they believe all the advertising they see.
Truth is, for the most part the subs are running themselves utterly ragged in order to make any sort of 'living'. So they do the obvious and cut corners. Lots of corners.
Concrete guys will thin out the slabs to 1/2 what they should be just to save a couple hundred on concrete. Steel gets dumped right on the moisture barrier so they can save 10 cents on some steel holder upperers.
Having worked on a couple on and off I can say that I hate it. Total crap built by guys who are happy to make it worse. Then the customer cant figgure out why their new spendy house gets faults............
Whatever it was.................I didnt do it.
Just to give a HO's perspective:
Don't knock people for wanting to keep their monthly payment down. Most people (myself included) DO care about what's in the walls, but if you can't pay for it, then you have to make do with what you can afford.
We lived in two places built by national builders.
The first was a condo in which had our gas piping switched with our upstairs neighbors - when they moved out we had no gas. Had to hire a plumber to come in & fix everything so we could have heat. I have no idea how that went unnoticed for 15 years (not sure how many owner/tenant changes went on between the two units in that time).
The second was a house that sometimes I don't know how it passed final inspection. There were no GFI outlets (or breakers) in the kitchen. All 2 1/2 bathrooms (granted they were tiny bathrooms since the whole house was only 1300 sq ft), the garage AND the outside outlets were all on the same circuit. There was no ridge vent on the roof.
My point is that yes, you DO get what you pay for, but you can only pay for what you can afford. That is why we decided to build our own house. We wanted to be able to use quality materials, but can't afford to pay someone else at the same time. Believe me, if I had the means, I would hire it out, but you do what you can.