*
Well, I just came out of my “environmental crawlspace” (What are those anyway??) where I was tearing apart all the plumbing in this old place and wondered what the pipe ai just pulled out is. The reason for ripping it all out is
1) its really old (not that thats a good reason)
2) It was routed all over the place and made no sense to look at and try to figure out where anything went (not that thats a good reason either), and;
3) because my brand new bathtub faucets that I just installed clogged instantly with rust when I turned the water back on. (Finally a good reason)
Anyway while crawling/slithering/digging my way aound, I ran across 2 different types of pipe. In all the accessible areas there was galvanized pipe, but back in the never-never land areas where no one really wants to go the pipe was much softer, coated in black, and wanted to bend rather than turn with the pipe wrench on it. also the colour of the metal wasn’t steel coloured – it was greyer (if that makes sense). I am wondering how likely it is that this would have been lead pipe. The toilet is stamped Jan 28, 1959 and I don’t believe the plumbing to that bathroom has been touched since initial installation. (I did find an old licence plate under there dated 1950, and a whiskey bottle though)
BTW if anyone is looking for a Gerber toilet from Jan of 1959, just gimme a shout. I think its something like 30 gal/flush
Replies
*
Likeliness of your pipe being lead is approximately 98.6%. Was it DWV? Supply side would be more unusual to be lead.
*I have never had direct experience with the stuff, but I would say that your description sounds suspiciously like lead pipe (as in lead-pipe-cinch). The stuff was reportedly common up through the 1930s and I read some place that it may have been used as late as 1963. Not good stuff for supply lines. Some people blame it for bringing down the Roman Empire (However, there may have been a few other things at work, also). Some cities have lead pipe abatement programs and give grants to replace lead pipe with something a bit less inclined to wipe out the brain cells. If your pipe is as old as this, however, it may be worth something more than scrap:http://www.romanbaths.co.uk/rompub/leadpipe.htm
*Lead?I see it every now and then on drain lines. Usually from "P" traps to cast iron or galvanized drains. At one time lead was used in supply lines but I have never seen it myself. See if you can cut off a shaving with a sharp knife. If you have some of it out see if you can melt it with a torch. If the answer is yes then it is most likely lead. Incidentally, the term "plumbing" is derived from the latin word for lead "plumb." So is the modern term "plum" for perfectly vertical. The old plumb bobs were weighted with lead.
*These were supply lines, both hot and cold, 1/2 inch pipe. Maybe the bathroom is older than I thought then if the pipe was used that far back. When did they stop installing the stuff??
*Paddle - I've run into lead drain lines quite often in renovation/historic preservation work. They are usually identifiable by the 'bulbous' fittings and the softness indicated. Scratch with a knife - if it shines silvery through the scratch, etc. it's probably lead. However, I haven't run into lead supply lines since most of them were replaced before WWII. I believe that lead was outlawed in the US in street supply piping in 1924, and I occasionally have run into lead laterals from the street in an older house, but not within the house. I've never seen any of it 'coated in black.' Are you sure it isn't copper, badly oxidized from exposure / coating? Copper can look grey-green or even mostly grayish in dim crawl space lighting when old.Of course, lead piping needs to be replaced for obvious reasons.Jeff
*Replaced the city supply for my house last year and the joint from the steel pipe to the main was 18" length of lead.The main was installed in 1924(ish) and the water company people told me that it was common with galvanized plumbing to provide the needed flex where each home branched off of the main (vibration, thermal expansion,etc.).They told me it was probably coated inside with calcium (over time) which prevents the lead from leaching into my water supply, and it was a short piece so not much concern.So, maybe if you had just local, flex couplings out of lead and they were old, maybe you did not get much lead in your water...But it is a nice feeling to know that it is gone afterwards!Based on what the city water department told me, I would guess that some lead was used on all galvanized domestic hook-ups until copper came along.
*Well, all the old pipe is out of the place now and I am in process (on a break actually) of replacing with copper. When the pipe is out of the crawlspace it still looks the same (black coating on silvery pipe - no Bulbous fittings though, just pipe threads) really its a moot point since I've pulled all the stuff, but I was just wondering how likely it is that the stuff was lead. I took some of it to work to send to the scrapyard today, and one of the guys there saw some rust on the end of a length and said it couldn't be lead since there was rust on it, but then I showed him how nicely it bends, and he scratched his head and shrugged his shoulders. Be damned if I know what the stuff is.This isn't a joint to city water, it is almost all of the plumbing in the house - and it is an old house. Wonder if the stuff was used longer in Canada than in the States. Maybe thats it.
*Was that a little rust on one end, or plenty of rust all the way through? It still sounds like lead to me, lead pipe could get rust on it from contact with deteriorating galvanized pipe. One more test: does a magnet stick to it?-- J.S.
*Could your pipe be coated or painted or just plain oxidized aluminum? If it had threads it probably was not lead.
*Aluminium would make sense Ralph, but I have never heard of aluminium pipe. Gonna do the Magnet test. Man does Soldering ever get old fast.
*Likewise, never heard of aluminum for plumbing. Could it be an old bootleg job? Anyhow, if the magnet sticks, it's steel. If not, is it heavier than an equivalent amount of steel (lead), or lighter than an equivalent amount of steel (aluminum)?-- J.S.
*It is lighter. I am satisfied to believe it is aluminium. That still doesn't explain the rust though. Maybe a carbon induced alloy??
*Yup, lighter and black gunk from contact with water, that sounds like aluminum. My guess is that the rust migrated from connection with steel pipe.-- J.S.
*YIPPEE!!Well the job is complete. I went from never having sloldered a single joint to replumbing the entire house in 3 days... And there's only 1 joint thats dripping.I am Da man!!(Feel good about this - Father said I couldn't do it and I oughta call in a plumber) Do you know how good a hot bath feels after 3 days of crawling around in the mud??
*Paddle --Valves, man. Lotsa valves. Put ball valves in here and there and you can design the system so that you can have water in part of the house every night after you finish. Worth it to be able to wash the mud off every night. They also come in real handy when you have to fix something later on. When you go back in after that drip, start by putting a valve ahead of it.-- J.S.
*Steve said, "the term "plumbing" is derived from the latin word for lead "plumb." So is the modern term "plum" for perfectly vertical. The old plumb bobs were weighted with lead."Mostly correct. All those terms (plumb=vertical, plumbing, plum bob, etc.) come from the Latin word for lead, "plumbum". Hence the chemical symbol for lead is Pb. So said my chemistry profs and my Webster's. -David
*
Well, I just came out of my "environmental crawlspace" (What are those anyway??) where I was tearing apart all the plumbing in this old place and wondered what the pipe ai just pulled out is. The reason for ripping it all out is
1) its really old (not that thats a good reason)
2) It was routed all over the place and made no sense to look at and try to figure out where anything went (not that thats a good reason either), and;
3) because my brand new bathtub faucets that I just installed clogged instantly with rust when I turned the water back on. (Finally a good reason)
Anyway while crawling/slithering/digging my way aound, I ran across 2 different types of pipe. In all the accessible areas there was galvanized pipe, but back in the never-never land areas where no one really wants to go the pipe was much softer, coated in black, and wanted to bend rather than turn with the pipe wrench on it. also the colour of the metal wasn't steel coloured - it was greyer (if that makes sense). I am wondering how likely it is that this would have been lead pipe. The toilet is stamped Jan 28, 1959 and I don't believe the plumbing to that bathroom has been touched since initial installation. (I did find an old licence plate under there dated 1950, and a whiskey bottle though)
BTW if anyone is looking for a Gerber toilet from Jan of 1959, just gimme a shout. I think its something like 30 gal/flush