Just wondering if you guys could give ten good reasons for using subs vs employees. Historically we have used both. Carpentry and such usually stays in-house. Thinking about using more subs just interested in what y’all consider the upside in this decision.
Thanks in advance.
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Replies
I don't have ten reasons, but I hired subs because they carried the responsibility for doing the job and made life easier for me
and especially on the mechanicals that require a license you almost have to.
My expertise is carpentry so I stuck with that and subbed out everything else.......less headache.
The secret is to find and keep the same plumbers etc....and not just go after the cheapest bid. (Then you'll find your headaches will become overpowering)
Send them a print.....add their cost to your bid ..add it all up and go to the homeowner.....simple.........
GET PAID FOR THE BID and knock it off if the HO accepts it.
Yes I agree with specialty trades being subs. Just recently started thinking about carp/siding/deck subs. Just trying to decide if theres enough pro vs cons to try it.Greg
http://www.wernerbuilding.net
jj,
Send them a print.....add their cost to your bid ..add it all up and go to the homeowner.....simple.........
GET PAID FOR THE BID and knock it off if the HO accepts it.
I wish it was always that easy... ;)
Mike
It is if the HO is serious about you building their house.......if you are in the advertising market, etc......(which I hated and did as little as possible) it's a different story cause a lot of these people look at you the same as if you were a car dealer......(.read Pete's thread on free estimates)
it's all balance.... subs vs inhouse... you can do more work with subs but everyone has to make a living... so you are giving up profits if someone else is making them... unless which is often the case when they can do it faster/cheaper/better than you... because it's what they do day in day out... then it comes down to your management skills to take advantage of that fact and use it... it's still your butt on the line and the home owner will look to you.... so in their eyes everyone there is one of "your guys"...
p
Greg,
We have to use subs as in our area, the trades (plumbing, electrical and mechanical) are permit required jobs and thus you need to have a licensed person do the work. We'd hire a staff of each individual as a license-holder if we could and be totally self-contained. Just quite costly compared to using them per job...especially now.
Mike
As some have mentioned , subs are necesary.
But , if you get too reliant on them they take the biggest share of profits and you might as well work for them if that happens. Unless you like being a broker and doing volume.
Subs out dollar contractors here residentially. They flat out make more money.
Tim
Tim my problem is starting to be too much work not enough people. I know what you mean about getting too reliant.
BTW I've really enjoyed your flip thread. Alway wanted to try rentals and/or flips. Lots of knowledge in that thread.Greg
http://www.wernerbuilding.net
A friend of mine uses subs frequently.
When he does an addition, he uses a framing crew, insulators, sheetrockers, electrical, plumbers,mason, tilers etc.
He's there as the GC, and generally does the finish carpentry. I sometimes work with him at that point.
Like someone else already said, he uses the same subs year after year, so they work with him ,and give his jobs priority.
I haven't read any of the other responses yet because I wanted my point of view to be fresh.
1. Control costs
2. More flexibility to increase volume as needed
3. Potential for higher quality of work
4. Your physical well being is not as essential to keep the company afloat
5. Projects can be done more quickly
6. Increased networking opportunities
7. Less company overhead
8. Fewer employment issues to deal with (payroll taxes, I-9's, WC claims, etc.)
9. Ability to do projects you could not do yourself (either because of available manpower or lack of knowledge)
10. Licensing requirement for trade contractors.
The first 7 came pretty quickly to me, I had to think a little about the last three. The list is in no specific order other than the order in which I thought of them.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon, good to hear from you. You gave the list I was looking for. Thank you much.
How's your sister(?) that lives up here? Some time you're up this way you're gonna have to stop in.Greg
http://www.wernerbuilding.net
Greg,My sis is doing well. I think they will be there for a long time, but you never know.My wife & I moved from Stewartstown about three years ago, and my other sister who lived in Shrewsbury just moved to Kennard NE, which is a northern suburb of Omaha.I will keep you in mind the next time we're near Huntingdon.BTW- I could come up with ten good reasons to do things in house just as easily as my list that was pro-subs. We sub a good bit out, but do carpentry & siding in house. How much to sub out (and therefore how many employees to hire) is a continuous discussion that my business partner and I have.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thats a good list .
How bout 10 against it ?
Tim
FWIW...
Here the insurance companies take a close look at just how much you in house vs. how much you do with subs.
"Paper contractors" get hit harder for liability than those who do mostly in house.
Be worth asking your insurance companies if they have a break line and where it is. Game rules seem to change a lot.
Edited 4/8/2007 8:35 pm by dovetail97128
Exactly, re the subbed amount as a percentage of the entire package. Here in NY, GL for GCs is impossible to get if you sub more than about 25 percent.
The answers got to be different for different builders. Small renovations guys vs home builders or spec builders.
A "contractor" basically does contracts/contracting. So do a lot of "builders" per se'
Home Improvement and renovations guys with one or two employees or even work alone probably hire out sparkies and plumbers where a special license is required and where we aren't as well versed.
If I hired most things out I'd basically have to mainly be a salesman only with building skills.Thats not why I got into this.
Personally I prefer hiring out electricians for most all my electrical work other than putting in a fixture or outlet or two and plumbers on large plumbing jobs but on direct replacements and even moving a fixture here or there I'll do it myself.
To me...whatever is least stressful combined with how much money I'll make safely is the route I prefer following.
Wondering what's the most difficult subs some of you have finding that works well for you.
For me its foundation/concrete guys.
You know, not to generalize, but the 29% of people who still support President Bush are the ones who love to pronounce themselves more patriotic than the rest of us. But just saying you're patriotic is like saying you have a big one. If you have to say it, chances are it's not true.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I've said it before that if we subbed out ALL the aspects of our jobs, we couldn't afford to win them as we'd be too expensive. I know that can be debated for the way we price things but its the truth.