Greetings all. I usually hang out in Knots, but figured this problem was more along the lines of “less than fine” woodworking, so I decided to post here, and (hopefully) get the answer(s) I’m looking for.
I have been tasked to relaminate some “euro style” base cabinets. Change the formica color, in other words. The carcases are 3/4 melamine, the doors 3/4 particle board. I elected, for several reasons, to strip off the old laminate rather than laminate over the old. With the aid of a heat gun, this has largely been accomplished. A PIA, but doable.
All the 3/4 edges appear to have been glued with a heat activated adhesive, as opposed to contact cement, which was used on the door faces and some 3″ filler strips at the cabinet ends. The large faces stripped off clean, with little or no residual cement remaining on the particle board substrate, (which is no big deal anyways) and no pitting or gouging of the substrate (which would have been a big deal). The edges are a different matter, however.
Here, the laminate basically came off clean, and the adhesive remained on the substrate – patchy, and “nubbly”.
I am planning on using solvent based contact cement to apply the new laminate. Will this adhere to the old heat activated adhesive remaining on the edges? If so, what is the best way to smooth out that old stuff before applying new adhesive?
If not, how best to remove it? Heat and scrape? (ugh!) Solvent? What kind? Will residual solvent interfere with adhesion of the new adhesive?
What is this stuff, anyways? I seem to remember seeing (in a catalog, perhaps) a heat activated tape. I’m thinking that’s what I’m dealing with. Is this a better solution than contact for edge treatment, at least in this case?
Any other thoughts? Looking forward to hearing from you all. Thanks in advance.
Replies
Have you taken laminate off of all carcases and doors? If not let's talk about refacing.
If it's a done deal, think about cutting new door blanks or having them made. Life's to short, particle board to cheap.... You're replacing the laminate anyway.
These are square edged laminated 6 side doors?
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Run the door edges through the table saw. Just kiss the edges with the blade, enough to take off the glue.
For the cabinet carcasses, use a cabinet scaper.
Solvent will work to soften the glue only. It will just roll up into gummy little balls if you try to totally remove it with solvent. You can use a combination of solvent and scrapeing.
Depending on which solvent works for the old glue it may or may not effect the new contact cement. Only test patches can tell you that.
Thanks Dave. This was helpful.The rest of you engaging in class warfare can KMA. Jeeze!
Class warfare? I believe that kind of misapprehension is currently referred to as being in denial.
But just to run with your thought, I dare you to copy your first post and start a thread with it on Knots, using the same title.
I will apologize, twice.First for my snippy reply this afternoon. I had just finished stripping the rest of the old laminate, was back in the shop and had a quick moment to check for helpful replies. Was shocked and disappointed with what I found. Reacted poorly. I'm sorry.Second, for my poor choice of words in my original post. It was late, I was beat from a long day at my day job followed by a long day on a side job, and I perhaps didn't explain myself very well.The intro page suggested introducing oneself, hence the reference to knots. The sole reason I posted here is because I figured I would get more and better responses from those who routinely work in the field as opposed to shop dawgs whose focus is on building furniture and/or solid wood cabinetry. I still hope that this holds true.I'll pass on your dare. I prefer not to agitate for the sake of agitation.
Good explanation. All understandable, from the new perspectives you supply. A belated welcome to Break Time.
This board has a well established game of baiting newbies, particularly those who seem to enter with presumptions about who they will find here.
Your first post stated that you were here looking for some advice on not so fine woodworking. That phrase could be read as an implication that you were descending to our level to ask a question.
Not wanting to allow that sort of attitude to go unchallenged, I wrote a mildly sarcastic reply with humourous intentions, as is often done here under similar circumstances.
Had you replied directly to that post, with something like what you've just written, I would've welcomed you warmly, as I do now. Better a bit late than not at all, on both sides.
This board has provided me with a lot of very useful help, from many very knowledgeable and skilled tradespeople. It's a great resource so stick around and discover that for yourself.
I didn't see any problem. I only go over to Knots if I need to ask questions about finishes, wood species and so on. I don't do any "fine" wood work - on my own time or as part of my job.I agree with you that re-facing cabinets is less than fine wood-working and I'd think Breaktime is a probably a better place to ask about it.
First post huh? Already taking sides?
I do "fine" woodworking, among other things and many of my friends do too. It's just that I prefer to "hang out" with this group of HoityToities than those "others" at knots. :~)
Actually, I even prefer CooksTalk over knots now a days.
Thought I'd give an update, for those interested in the subject of the original post.Gonna leave the other stuff alone.Began relaminating today. Did a test first, so as to be sure. It sure seems like contact will grab that heat activated stuff just fine. Some light scraping with a cabinet scraper smooths out the "nubblies" left from removal, and a double coat of the solvent based contact gave me a strong bond.Time will tell......but I'm not going to bother with "kissing" the edges of the door panels even.Would still like to know, just because, exactly what the original cabinet shop was using for edge treatment adhesive. Anybody got a definitive answer? Inquiring minds wanna know!
If these are frameless cabinets, they propbably used a termal adhesive that is applied to the board edge and then the egding is applied and trimmed. This I know from personal experience. I've run hundreds of miles of this stuff.
If it is the melamine type(more brittle), then a hot irion will heat the edgebanding and can then be peeled off. The Pvc type(more sticky plastic when melted) will melt and stick to the iron face.
Thanks for the reply.It's neither of these, however. I've run some myself, but only a few yards of it :-) Comes in a roll, preglued, white to match the melamine. Other colors available....I've used an iron, am aware of the commercial applicators.In this case, however, both frameless carcase and door edges are the same formica as the faces. Different adhesives, though.As I said, I'm guessing it's a glue tape, again in a roll, and surely also applied with a commercial machine. At this point, I'm only curious as to whether I'm right.
unless they used contact cement, it is still a hot glue applied with an edgebanding machine at a temp of about 500*F.
If you are able to pry off a piece of the edging, it will usually have a thin horizontal or verticle glue lines. This is either applied through injection or a spiral uplift roller system. Either way, a hot iron should still be able to remove the tape. many of the large edgebanders, and even a few smaller ones like mine, are capable of applying laminate in stips. Even solid 1/8" wood strips can be done on many of these machines. Been there, done that.
A heated chisel will remove the surface adhesive
Contact cement is another story but heat could/should still work. Clean up the excess flue with a little acetone or lacqure thinner. You don't need to remove all of it, just enough to smooth the surface out.
Canplast among others(Framatech near LosAngeles) have about every color available to match laminate. You could find a shop to re-edge the doors for you. Framatech will sell you any width you need. My advice is to order new doors or at least, buy your sheetgoods already laminated and then cut them your self to size. You should be able to find a laminator that will sell the completed sheetgoods cheaper than you can buy the substraight and laminate your self.
The old doors will have glue an other boogers telegraph through and will easily be seen on a matte finish door
Edited 10/3/2009 2:54 pm by migraine
I usually hang out in Knots, but figured this problem was more along the lines of "less than fine" woodworking, so I decided to post here...
I feel so redeemed by a visit from a member of Knots. Please allow me to bask in the glow of your esteemed presence.
LOL!That's just cold. . .
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http://www.josephfusco.org
http://www.constructionforumsonline.com
The guy condescends to visit BT only to ask a question about something that he's too embarrassed to bring up on Knot's.
As the elderly lady owner of my favorite roadside cafe used to say when such an occasion arose: "Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out".