My 1916 Sears Roebuck gambrel has grown a bit of a belly. I pulled a string from end to end of the center beam in the basement (bearing on tree trunk columns), and it’s about 1 3/4″ low, between the supports. I’m considering adding screw posts to shore up the low points… but original plaster on wood lath upstairs has me thinking I should get lots of opinions FIRST.
My tentative plan is to borrow some jacks and go about 1/16″ at a time and spend as long as it takes to move it slowly, in hopes of avoiding cracks.
So….. riddle me this: Is there a rule of thumb, a life’s lesson, any words of wisdom that I can acquire… without resorting to learning the hard way? Anyone?
Thanks in advance
Replies
Descripe the center beam and how far in between these posts for starters.
Does the sag follow through to the above floors, ceilings and roof line.
Are you having problems with doors or windows sticking.
1 3/4" is quite significant.
Eric
Thanks for all the responses.
It's a 25' long beam, approx 8x8 timber. One of those cool locked ?scarf (lightning bolt shaped) joints with a steel strap around it, too. Fortunately (or not) I've got no plans to finish the basement so adding posts won't be a big deal.
Foundation is stone, pointed & parged. The wood tree trunk columns are located at 1/3 points [= ~8' spans].
The sag translates in 1st floor & 2nd floor & ceiling, roof is fine. Interestingly, only a couple doors have visible sag & none stick. Minimal planing is evident, but I'll have to look over the rails a little more closely...
(good thing I'm not good at getting projects started around the house)
You are too tenative. take a quarter inch at at time.
use some good hydraulic jacks to lift and chase them with the screw jacks. Those screws are only there for adjusting, not for lifting. And hydraulics will bleed off overnite nine times out of eight.
Make sure the hydraulic is set on solid flat level footing and that the 4x4 you put over it is sound and plumb. use a steel plate between the jack and the 4x4
With plaster on lathe, there is a good chance you will get at least an inch and probably 1-1/2" before you notice any problems with it, but still wise to go slow. Take a quarter inch and walk through the house looking at walls, joints, Windows and dooors, etc. The take another quarter inch. Maybe get 3/4" total first day, then a half inch next day, then by quarters.
Get ready for the possibility that it won't want to straighten out all over. You could end up lifting the end someplace so check the whole house and not just where the beam is.
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I had a 1904 victorian that had a similar problem. The bottom of a 8x8 post had rotted and allowed the 10x8 beam to sag over a 16 foot span.
Jacked it with 20T screw jacks and then put in several steel posts on a new footing.
The floor was down about 2.5 inches at the low spot, we brought it back up ~2 inches.
There were cracks in most rooms; some major, including chunks of plaster that detached (I'm sure they were not stable to begin with, but still...)
The big problem was the plumbing. I can assure you...when you hear someone flush upstairs, and then see water running down the kitchen cabinets, that's not a warm-and-fuzzy feeling!
The old cast iron drain from the toilet had let go during the process, and the result was a new bathroom floor and drain.
And finally, the iron stack in the basement separated (probably just a lead fitting) and that was the easiest fix...a big no-hub coupling.
We were happy we did it, but it was a bigger pill than we expected.
How long is that beam? (1 3/4 over 25 feet is different than over 50 feet<G>)
And what kind of foundation walls? Cement block?
In my part of the country it is very common for older houses to slope inward. There are competing theories as to why that happens: I subscribe to the theory that in most cases it results from expansion of the block over decades of being moist rather then settlement of the center.
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My family has owned an Adirondack children's camp since 1945, and I grew up with about 25 buildings in various states of sag. Amongst my earliest memories are "going to borrow O'Leary's barn jack" to move these things around. My life's experience has left me utterly unwilling to move anything that doesn't NEED to be moved. If its working, and doesn't look so bad you don't care whether a door on the other side of the building will mysteriously no longer open after you move your beam, then I'd jack it up only enough to get very solid support under it to prevent it from moving anymore at all and stop right there. I've gotten into plenty of trouble over the years being ambitious about straightening things out, and ultimately decided that if it wasn't broken I wouldn't fix it, but just stop it from any further movement. I've had problems with remote (other end, around the corner) doors, windows, and plumbing. I've put excess strain on remote framing members and caused cracks there. If you'd be content were the place to freeze in place as is, with no further damage done, then that is certainly what I'd be doing after 57 years of causing damage by doing otherwise. And my father before me.
Very good call on the plumbing... House has all new wiring & plumbing circa 2001 - supply side of the water system is something of the PEX variety (not sure which brand right this second) and the DWV system is some variety of PVC.
I'm going to scrutinize everything over the weekend, and most likely just shore without lifting.. then think some more and either procrastinate for several years or have a go at it. I sorta like the idea that everything works right now (unless I'm playing marbles on the floor) and I really don't think I should go out of my way to create more work when really it is just character.
Thanks again, to all.
1 ... 1 3/4 ... almost 100 yrs old ... thats not much ... almost enough to still be just considered ... character.
2 ... 1/4 a day! Pif's nuts. Stick with the slow but steady.
3 ... first ... go over everything first ... make sure stuff hasn't already been "fitted" ... to fit the sag. Plumb/level/straight .. might mean all the windows and doors have to now be replaced ... good head up on the old plumbing too.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Gotta agree, 1/8" at a time is the most I'd do, and then let it sit a few days and maybe go back for some more. It's taken a hundred years to settle and it's not going to just straighten out overnight. Cracks may not appear right away in plaster, they may show up days or weeks after you do the jacking, so if you've put expensive wallpaper over the plaster get ready for some heartache.
My house was on cribs for a month last fall. When we set it down on the new foundation, the right rear corner was up about 1/2" off the plate. I waited a week to see if it would settle, and it didn't budge so I stuck some shims under that corner and sheathed everything.
Like a woman.
Some are easier than others, just have to read sign along the way, but most times, the first bit is easiest with least resistance.
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I lift alot of buildings (apartments). I have lifted a full side of a building 2 1/2" inches in one day. (major termite damage, A doubled 2x6 for the sill and all the joist ends were gone, not rotted, gone.) I had some corner cracks and cracked a window. I can be done quick or slow, I believe it would have cracked anyway.
Please make sure the column is sitting on something solid, pour a footing if nessessarry. Nothing makes your heart jump like blowing a hole through a muddy "rat slab" when you thought it was a 4" slab.
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?
I have had 100 yr houses with tree posts sagging plenty. When I removed one post the inner rot was so bad I could stick my arm right up the center, all that was left was an inch around the perimeter! Then I found out the post was only sitting on a flat rock! No wonder why it sunk so much.
Go easy the hydraulics. Sure the screw posts are not good for lifting but one on each side with a pipe wrench and cheater pipe lifts plenty.
Here in Da Burgh, basement floors were only concrete skim coated over slag. You may have to pour new footers. I was lifting one house and after a week or so I noticed my new 2 ft round footer was moving "down" while the beam stayed put! These old houses are heavy! Another thing I noticed 100 years ago they went out of their way for perimeter footings, but footings for the center beam posts were grossly undersized. Possibly because they were "real" brick houses - 3 wythes of brick about 14 in thick! The outside brick walls were crack-free while all the inside walls were cracked in a distinctive pattern.
When lifting go real slow! You might not even want to reach "level." I used the "creak method" - Lift a little until the noises start! Then give the house a few days to "relax" and do it again. This is a long term project. Keep your eyes open to see what's happening in the rest of the house.
Be aware that basement slabs are not very strong. It is a good idea to put down a fat timber under the jack base, so the jack does not bust through the slab.
Also, those steel post jacks at the big box store are not rated for permanent installation. Once you get it level, it is best to install a permanent steel column, on a proper footing. If you are certain of the location, you may want to dig the footing first. Generally a 2'X2'X2' concrete cube makes for a good footing.
I'll just plug my new favorite screw jacks for house leveling one more time. These things are inexpensive, and generally much easier to use than regular screw jacks or steel post jacks:
http://www.gearshop.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=21&Product_ID=1297&CATID=22
View Image
Like csnow says, make sure you have a good footing under the replacement lally columns. On an episode of Ask This Old House I saw recently, Tom Silva jacked a house enough to free the sticking doors then used 4" columns filled with concrete on a 2'x2'x2' reinforced concrete footing to hold things in place. Trying to get everything back to level may be asking too much.