I’m curious how some of the wiser folks on this site would react and handle the following situation.
I’ve undertaken a major addition/renovation to my home that started almost 4 years ago. Still have a ways to go, but so far the wife and kids have been very, very patient and understanding of the situation. I wish some of the neighbors had the same patience.
I recently received an anonymous letter from someone on my street complaining about the slow progress of my house. For the record, half of the side walls are covered with the existing cedar shingles and the other half is covered with 30# felt paper. The paper is still in decent shape…There is no construction debris littering the lawn, it just looks like a house that is still under construction.
Anyway back to the letter. This letter was also sent to everybody on my street, about 25 families. The letter says that I refused to accept help from neighbors (not true), and that since we live in a “pricey” neighborhood they are concerned about property values being affected. For the record, houses have been selling for records prices all around me for the past 3 years, so I know that’s not a real issue.
Now the good stuff: The day after the letter is received, we receive a letter from the local building department. Asked me to call them to discuss the outstanding permit on my house…Coincidence, I don’t think so. Anyway the building dept guy was understanding, wants to see some progress on finishing the siding and and estimated finish date. Doesn’t want me to have to get new permits if this drags on much longer. I didn’t tell him about the other anonymous letter, nor did I ask him who complained, I didn’t think he would tell me anyway. Should I push him on this?
Some neighbors have been terrific. One family wrote a response to everyone blasting the anonymous and cowardly nature of the letter and asked for understanding and acceptance for all people, not just us…
Other neighbors (much more than 1) have been strangely silent, not a word has been said to us about the letter. Almost like it didn’t even happen. But these same people have spoken with other neighbors about the letter. Now the mind starts to wonder who did this? Was it a group or just a lone person?
The good thing about this is that I now know who our friends really are. Its the other neighbors that I really wonder about now. I know this isn’t the typical breaktime “How do I ?” question, but I figured that maybe some of guys have seen a situation like this before. Comments, questions are appreciated. Thanks for reading this post.
Replies
In my area of Dollard des Ormeaux" in Montreal, the by-law is very specific. 12 months from start to outside close-in. ie- siding finished and land levelled. So to have it go on for three years would get on my nerves too as a neighbour.
Having said that I would have gone to the H.O. first and logged my complaint directly. If he did nothing or sluft me off then I would go to the city about it.
Going to the city first is the sign of a coward.
"Sir! You are drunk!"
"Madam! You are ugly, and tomorrow I shall be sober!!" Winston Churchill
Hey Magoo, you've done it again, LOL. Do you know who the "neighbor" is? Finish the job and then have a rip roaring party. Seriously, after that amount of time, finish the exterior asap. Make the house pesentable then finish the interior at your leisure. But keep in mind, the nosy sob who turned you in didn't have the nads to confront you himself. I had a similar problem last year, built a 10x12 shed, got a cease and desist notice from the local building comissioner (his proper name)PIA. Had a constable deliver it, he came down 3 times, I was in the back working, my daughter answered the door, would not give the summons to her, had to be over 21 he said. All this for a freakin 25 permit fee. Good Luck. Jim Z
Love the name BTW.
2 incidents come to mind, both pertaining with my younger brother. 1st house was in an established subdivision,his once private backyard now has new neighbors.
Calls me to help put up a privacy fence.Dug holes,he wants good side of fence facing him.
Hardly got started when 'new'neighbor comes over,"sir, I believe the good side should face to the outside".
Oh,boy.Here we go.
Says theres no covenates/rules in his subdivision...to h### with her.
On his second house he decides to clear his lot himself.Borrows a bulldozer and did it himself.
Problem was the stack of trees piled by the road
but on his property.
They were there a couple weeks when a 'concerned' neighbor stoped by and asked when he was going to haul them way.
Seems their brat was playing on them and was concerned about said brat getting hurt.
Finish the outside of the dang house or hire a pro to it. Then once the lawn comes back, I'd plant a dozen flamingoes out front.
The anonymous neighbor is a weasel for sure, but almost 4 years to finish the outside of the house you're a slug.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
The Flamingoes are a great idea - a great anti-snob protest mascot.
Here's a great story about a neighborhood's response after a homeowner received a nasty anonymous note about her Flamingoes
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/2213958/detail.html
BUT BTW, the OP should finish the outside.
If you can't finish everything on a project at once, always do the front of the house first.
If there's work inside and out, priorities are (1) bathroom (2) electricity (3) what the nabes see
Edited 6/10/2005 3:39 pm ET by RickD
The Flamingoes are a great idea - a great anti-snob protest mascot.
Yeah? Here are a couple that live here, cavorting aroung the shiitake logs out front. The cat no longer pays any attention.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
excellent - did you read the article I posted?
I know of a dozen projects that took over 7 years to do. When the project were or almost finished, they got divorced. Apparently when the house was done, the common goal or fight was over to allow them to fight themselves.
Why are homeowners surprised or in denial when I say the "project is only half way done when the drywall is up"?
I have a bro-in-law in Newton. Very conservative, no flamingos at his house. You aware of house prices there? When he moved there 5-6 yrs ago, his $450k place was fixer-upper.
I also have a friend in a tiny town in N. Ohio. No flamingos there that I'm aware of. But there are incredible numbers of geese. Mostly concrete ones, wearing bikinis, bib overalls, tutus, formal wear.... All over town. My conservative friend has none.
Seems like great stuff to me.
Our flamingos have been very happy here these last 8 yrs. Unlike the peacocks (hens) that I had to forcibly evict. But they were animate, very noisy and crapped prodigiously everywhere.
Glad you liked our flamingos. Obviously wasn't the focal point of the picture. We had Denver houseguests. Old friends who'd not before visited. They found our life fascinating. Quite different from the barrio we once inhabited. Somebody would've shot the flamingos there.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
an anonymous shooting, no doubt.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
an anonymous shooting, no doubt.
(chuckle)
Sometimes. I was in my shop looking out when the kids took out an 8'x12' window with a BB gun. Pretty sure they didn't see me when they shot but they sure knew when I burst out the door. Didn't get the license number, but it likely wouldn't have been any use anyhow.
Interesting neighborhood that was. Only witnessed two fatalities (several muggings). Never understood why so many guns were abandoned on my property. One of those areas where if you didn't have a vehicle alarm you didn't have a battery, repeatedly, when cold weather came.
Did get lots of offers about hot tools though. Cops showed the same interest as with the guns. None.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Back in the late 60s my buddies brother had a battery stolen from his car . But the scoundrels replaced it with there old one ,hooked up the cables nice and tight also.
Much nicer than my old neighbors. I can't imagine.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Wow, almost as many responses as your typical "Vented/Unvented attic" post. Thanks to all who responded. You can imagine I've been pretty busy this past weekend so no time to read and respond to everyone.
Some questions where asked and some statements where posted, that I'd like to try and respond to, so here goes...
Mrs. Magoo DID NOT write the letter. She and I do not bow our heads in shame (sorry Piffin) nor are we afraid to been seen outside.
One neighbor has made what I think is a very interesting observation about this situation. A neighborhood is comprised of houses, but more importantly families and people. The "pricey" neighborhood mentioned, refers obviously to the houses only. Consider for a moment a prospective homebuyer hearing about or seeing "the letter" and wondering what kind of neighborhood they where buying into. Do they want to move onto a street where war may be about to breakout. Ironically "the letter" could cause more damage to property values than my temporary eyesore.
I will be the first to admit that I pushed the reasonable time limit for finishing the exterior cedar shingles. Unlike 75% of my neighbors I want my house to look real when it is done, not fake like alum/vinyl siding. Yes, I'm a DIY'er who has never done this before, so its been slow going, but I've read everything on this site and more, and have learned a hell of a lot. Thank you all for that.
Now about the permits...Since I took out most of the permits for the house, I did speak with the building officials early on. The addition was constructed using SIP's. (I did not do the framing). I asked the official if it would be OK to get inspections done on a piece meal basis. Response: Yes no problem just let us know...There was no time limit mentioned nor did I ask. The latest inspection was in Sep 04. Inspector was glad to see progress, no mention of the clock is ticking.
Having a large family ( 5 children) youngest 18 months, oldest 12 years, is the reason for the addition/renovation. The weekends are never as productive as you imagine them and of course my kids are always up to some good things on the weekends too. So time marches on and the next thing its 3 +years...
I just have to say that I get a real kick out of some of the armchair internet Psychiatrist's here. Diagnosing personalities and the like is really quite amusing. If I must say so myself, I'm really a nice guy and I do not own a gun. Thanks everyone. Even Piffin.
Well met, Mr Magoo !You'll do just fine.=0)
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
After rereading this and seeing the crassness of your response if have to post again. Plus I'm fueled with caffeine.So you are willing to go to war because the neighbors are concerned enough to voice their concerns anonymous or not about an eyesore in the neighborhood. As a buyer I would find neighbors concerned with such things as an attraction the only deterrent being the neighbor with the house four years under construction who is so anal he is ready to go to war rather than be a man and react in a way that addresses the concerns of the neighbors.So now here you are with a house with tar paper on the side, waiting for cedar shingle you obviously can't afford and putting the neighborhood houses down for the cheap fake vinyl siding. Man you certainly portray yourself as self- centered to the extreme.As far as permits go, if your delinquent, your delinquent. Now your mad at the neighbors and speculating they blew the whistle. Wether they did or not YOU"RE DELINQUENT !!Look to calm down. If you handle this matter in the right way. I'm sure the neighbors would pitch in to at least volunteer to watch the children on the weekend. You might even find volunteers willing to help you. Swallow your foolish pride, respect your street and ask for a little help.You might be a nice guy, if you are then it should be a little more of a motivating factor to get the people on your street to stop sending you anonymous letters, and to start saying Hi, without talking amongst themselves about the problem down the street. You got yourself in and now with tact and effort you have to get yourself out.
curious as to how a buyer would know how long a particular house was being worked on. The seller would say that during a viewing? the realter would say it?Also. someone would say to a potential buyer. This is a neighborhood were if you are doing someing the neigbors don't like, they'll send you an anonomous letter. that would make me want to buy there.unless you accepted restrictions when you bought, the neighbors have no business on how you want your house to look. none.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
You are exactly correct bobl.
Most potential buyers see a house under construction as a good sign that the neighborhood is developing.
Unfortunately today most people are not willing to sacrifice something today, for a better tomorrow. Most people want immediate gratification and can't handle the concept that sometimes better things, might just take a little time.
Mr. Magoo sorry to ruffle your feathers I didn' realize the thread was old. I just saw it come up and thought it was current. I still think your a little indignant in your last response but Oh well. Live and let live.
>>>"Unfortunately today most people are not willing to sacrifice something today, for a better tomorrow. Most people want immediate gratification"Immediate gratification??? I think immediate falls somewhere short of 4-?? years for an addition.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
jon and that falls back under its none of your business what i do to my house land etc worry about yourself and yours everyone will get along fine
Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
true jon i just really hate when other people tell me what i can and cannot do
probably sounded rude not my intention
lol but it is the way i feel
You mean like the right to tell someone what they should do with their own property ?Or the right to insult them if they don't/aren't doing what you think they should be doing ?; )
Are we there yet ?
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Or maybe the right to not be taunted by your neighbor's 4 year old tar paper?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
That's a RIGHT ???; )I hope you realize I'm pulling yer chain.I definately understand your point.But I also see that one side here is trying to push it's own agenda against the other. And the other side is simply saying leave me alone, you shouldn't think you have the right to push your own agenda down my throat.
Are we there yet ?
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>>>"I hope you realize I'm pulling yer chain."I know that you're mostly pulling my chain.And you are right that there are two agendas being pushed. I don't think I'm at either end of the extreme.What I do think I know is that Magoo has taken a long time, even for "quality" work to be completed. A guy like Sphere who does not live in the confines of a neighboorhood is free from the responsibility that we all have to consider our neighbors.When Magoo gets fired up and paints a phrase that, from what I can find, means "the back of my hand to you" I tend to think he would not be my #1 choice for a neighbor.If I was on either side of the fence I would rather the matter be settled outside of court of the building department. When you have to legislate to replace what used to be known as the golden rule you lose a lot of freedom.My take, whether right or wrong, is Magoo is concerned very little with the desires of his neighbors and that bothers me. "But hey, whadda I know?"
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
We are actually pretty much in agreement.And I think there has been a good deal of back of the hands from both sides. In my opinion, the siding should have been done long ago.But in my reality, I have let far worse conditions go for far longer.Granted, my circumstances are very different. But still, I can empathise with slow progress.
Are we there yet ?
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I guess this not a good time to blow ya kiss huh?
Jon. Them tunes are still trying to fight my puter..arrgh.
Call it what y will..us rednecks, can't grasp the intracies of Mp3 just yet..bear with me.
I don't aim for the angle at the top o' tree..but damm, i'll take an ornament or two on the way up..esp when the dog pissed on the tinsel down below...
that is how i relate to Mp3 transfers..my puter is locking up on C drive ( limited mem) and D is wide open ...
time to alocate new space on C From D..I hope.???
Luka save me..? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I've been welding all day, what is YOUR excuse?
Duane,
Speekin o' tunes. Howsa'bout mailing mine back to me?
SamT
Roger that..they wont cooperate on my puter..I hate Realplayer and WMA ( windows cabbage)...an my bud tried to copy as a Mp3 on his Ipod........we must be dolts. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Make a sweet noise, it might be the last sound you hear
Speaking of tunes, did you get what I mailed you? 'S OK if you didn't like it.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Tom,
Yep got it.
Thanks, belatedly.
Our CD player won't read it or many others. So I can't tell you how I feel about it.
The stucco manual is greatly appreciated.
Thanks mucho, once again.
SamT
after this post i'll give up beating the dead horse- LOL
dinosaur, i appreciate your point about guarding our civil liberties. i don't disagree with what you are saying, only with the need to drag the government into magoo's situation.whenever and wherever people gather to live in a community under any form of government, or none at all, personal dynamics come into play. as i read it, magoo is just trying to work through some classic neighborhood drama.
peace out.
I think we agree on the basic points. I was just trying to emphasize that 'goverment'--note I put the word in quotes--isn't just those 'official' elected bodies we normally think of as government. Anytime anyone tries to control the behaviour of anyone else, that is governing.
Sometimes--quite often, in fact--the smallest forms of government, such as neighbourhood associations, school councils and school boards, college boards of governors, etc., are the nastiest and hardest to deal with.
So the point is not that I am trying to 'drag the government into magoo's situation'...the point is that government is already there.
BTW, did you hear the news story about 4 months back about the real estate broker in Florida who had her condo sold out from under her by the new neighborhood association because she refused to join it and pay dues? (The association did not exist at the time she bought the condo, so there was no consent agreement in force that she violated by refusing.)
I forget the exact legal finangling that went on, but the result was this woman's $985,000 condo was sold at auction without her being notified...for $4,000. A year and a day later, she got a letter from the new owner telling her to get out. (Since it had been a year and a day, her time to file on a challenge to the auction sale she never knew about had expired....)
I don't know what the final outcome was. We heard it reported up here on the CBC radio program As It Happens but I never heard the follow up. It's probably gonna take years and cost a couple of hundred thou in lawyer's fees to straighten it all out....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Everything that can be moved to the d drive should be moved there.Program files and such are all that should be on the c drive.After you clear as much room as you can on the c drive, run scandisk, and then defrag it.Your computer will be faster. And your lockups will probably go away.
Are we there yet ?
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smooch(g)..will do. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Make a sweet noise, it might be the last sound you hear
Actually bobl,
I suspect most NORMAL buyers choose a neighborhood or neighborhoods they are interested in( based on school quality, safety, accessibility etc._
Then they investigate suitable homes within that neighborhood.
It might be quite sometime before they find the right house within their target neighborhood
and by the time they DO buy---they will be pretty familiar with the neighborhood.
If one of Magoos neighbors puts his house up for sale---- A LOT of potential buyers will recognize it as next to magoos well known, perpetually non progressing siding nightmare.
stephen
that might depend on the marketpeople might research a town for schools etc, but not necessiarily a neighborhood.when the market is a seller's...I've seen houses sell located in places that I thoughrt would never sell.but i've also seen houses with for sale signs up for a long time in towns that I thought would sell.I really don't think 1 house is going to matter that much.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
then again,
you and I don't live next door to magoo.
some of THEM do seem to think it matters.
BTW---if you already live in the town---and you are moving up-----you are shopping neighborhoods---not towns.
stephen
wow- this is really interesting.
FWIW, i agree that a permanently unfinished house does not enhance the value of the area and i'd rather not buy next door to such a house-- i'd fear potential for ongoing noise and mess. but i do see the difference between the lazy lout who leaves the job halfway done and the car up on blocks, and the weekend warrior on a casual schedule.although it's been a great debate about over-all rights and responsibilities, IMO, it boils down to homeowners need to be clear about the expectations of the neighborhod they choose and accept the status quo, or choose somewhere else to live. timeline for renovations may not have been in the contract, but most people would assume thst siding would go up in less than 4 years in a neighbiorhood like this. what flies in one area won't in another; one or the other way is not necessarily right or wrong, it's about an agreed-upon way of living.
i'm not a smoker, but i would never go into a smoking bar and complain about the smoke. i'd just go to another bar. nothing wrong with DIY and careful craftmanship, it's just too bad that you don't live among folks who share your enthusiasm for projects. maybe your next house...
so you didn't know you were bothering folks before the letter-- now you do know, and it doesn't matter who it was or how many, just try to make it right. the curiosity about who it was will ebb. assume that any or all of them were involved and treat all of them equally well. if the letter was truly offensive, your being nice will make the sender/s sorry for being such jerks. it was bound to be embarrassing to get this letter with no warning, and i agree the author/s made a bad decision to send it anonymously. they (and i do think it was a group) should have instead rallied the neighborhood and come over with a picnic, some babysitting teens and thrown you a work party, if only to get their message across in a positive way.we all sympathize with the neighnors having to put up with a 4-yr construction project that they have no idea of an end date for. almost any annoyance is more easily tolerated if you know when you can expect it to stop. the uncertainty and randomness makes it worse.
hammer. hammerhammerhammer.
hammer.hammer.
hammerhammerhammerhammer. hammer. hammerhammer.hammer...give them a deadline and keep it.
Edited 7/12/2005 10:17 pm ET by MSM
I guess I'm just a cynic.the only thing people are interested in is what's good for them.that's a generality, and I know there are individuals who are not like that.Do people move into an area to be part of a community, a real neighborhood, or is the house just an investment untill they move on. so all they are interested in is what they can sell the house for today/tomorrow. they don't expect to be in that house in 10, 20 years, they probably don't expect to be there in 5 years.they are interested in their pocketbook, not the neiborhood.guess, I'm just an old f*rt, seen too many people only out for themselves.and when you add in I'm not of the hive mentality...One of the curious things about the "incident" is what does a code book say about required siding materials. other than a home association, what town dictates via law what siding materials are required.since taste is subjective, who's take precedence.My BIL lives in VT, up there tar paper is an accepted siding to the locals (people who were born in Vt, and who go back some generations, not the flatlanders). Why? because the assessors are not allowed in the house when making tax assessments.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
when it comes to property value, being concerned with what's good for yourself generally is also good for the neighborhood, which in return is better for yourself. the problem here is that magoo is straddling good / bad. the home improvement is good, but the 4-yr eyesore it's created is bad. hence the disagreement between his neighbors and some BT'ers of course, it is a bummer for property taxes to go way up when some idiot builds "outside the neighborhood" by putting up a mansion in the midst of bungalows, as is happening all over my city 'cause people with money run out of new space to build big homes. but i don't think magoo's shing-a-ling, once finally finished, is going to mess with the property taxes much. whatever the codes and laws are in his area, the point i was trying to make earlier is that we should live by the SPIRITof the law, not just the letter of the law. if magoo looks around the neighborhood and sees no one else's house in long-term disarray, then he should realize that even if there's no time limits enforced on renovation in his area, he should still wrap this project up asap for the goodwill of the neighbors. after all, he hasn't been devoting ALL his free time to this for 4 years if he has an 18-month-old baby... LOL
"he should still wrap this project up asap for the goodwill of the neighbors."well, that's where I disagree with you and others in this thread.where is all these neihbors' goodwill towards him? As someone said, how much help has been offered to him?the niehbors are only intereested in themselves.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
"the neighbors are just interested in themselves".-- again-what's in their best interest is also in magoo's best interest here. that project needs to get done-- who exactly would that be bad for?if the neighbors aren't shinglers, they can't be blamed for not offering to help. BT'ers know how to do these things so it's easy to forget that the average office worker next door wouldn't dream of trying it.and whether anyone has offered to babysit or run errands or any other kind of trickle-down help doesn't matter in my book. it's like you teach your children: it doesn't matter if the other kids aren't doing the right thing, someone has to be first, so you start. you do the right thing even if they aren't.
the neighbors politely put up with the annoyance for 4 years, which is something. to ignore that and use the fact that they didn't help as an excuse is kind of childish and what i think they call passive-agressive behaviour.there are lots of variables and details we don't know about re. the dynamics of magoo and his neighbors. but rather than stew, i feel it's best, now that it's out in the open that this is a problem, to just accept the situation and resolve it.
possibly magoo has a subconcious need for this project to go on forever- my mom is like that. she's deathly afraid of anything coming to an end. i'm guilty of leaving things midway because once i've figured it out, solved the problem of how to do it, i am bored and ready to move on to something else. i'm bad with the follow-through. if this is the case for magoo, he needs to hire someone and move on to a challenge that's not visible from the street.Edited 7/13/2005 11:48 am ET by MSM
Edited 7/13/2005 12:12 pm ET by MSM
"that project needs to get done-"why?because the neibors want it done?because his house will be worth more and he will have to pay higher taxes?rather than spend time for with his family?they can't help?can't clean up?pass materials etc?so the neigbors can believe that sending anonouse letters works?
don't buy anything you saythe neihbors are only out for themselves
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
bobl,
you mention that " the neighbors are only out for themselves"
but isn't that what magoo is doing????
Magoo pretty clearly demonstrates that he is only concerned with HIS concerns-----no regaurd for the neighbors-----but he expects the neighbors to cut him some slack 'cause he has a young , growing family.-----------and apparently YOU seem to feel that the NEIGHBORS should finish his project for him!!!!!!!
I don't understand that reasoning at all.
i DO kind of wonder how big of a town/city you live in?----you don't seem to grasp neighborhood dynamics all that well.
In my small city of 200,000 or so there are currently 7 or 8 highschools and probably a couple dozen grade schools in the same school system. but people shop neighborhoods----because there are some neighborhoods you would NEVER willingly raise a family in---others are highly desireable---other so/so. some neighborhoods are extremely neighborhood oriented with a population VERY committed---generations of the same family living within the neighborhood---------believe me---a stunt like magoos would MOST definitely affect property values in my neighborhood.
Basically, i think magoos neighbors have been MORE than reasonable for 4 years or so----to slam 'em cause they object NOW---or to imply that the NEIGHBORS should volunteer THEIR time to finish magoos project----- that logic escapes me totally.
no freakin way a project like that should drag on for 4 years----and then have the nerve to slam the neighbors.
amazing.
Stephen
well, bobl, that make us even 'cause i don't see your logic from post 59254.120 either.you are making this an us-against-them situation instead of accepting that finishing the darn siding would be a good thing for everyone. you actually said "why does he need to finish this project?" ?!? if magoo doesn't need to finish it, why did he start it? please post a picture of your tar paper house., and other tar paper houses that are sold as 'finished'. i had no idea that it was a legitimate look. pity the silly fools who waste all that money on bricks, stucco and vinyl. the laugh is on us.Edited 7/13/2005 1:43 pm ET by MSM
Edited 7/13/2005 1:45 pm ET by MSM
"a legitimate look"care to define that? and provide a source of ligitamacythere are some on this site that think vinyl siding is a crime. so you can't include that. in fact from the way you have posted people with vinal siding should be forced to have it removed and replaced with "a legitimate look".
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
no one's freedom is being threatened here.
magoo has the freedom to either act like a jerk or to be concientious.
and again, getting the freakin' shingles up is a win-win situation.
what is it you keep finding wrong with this?it's not like the neighbors want him to do something he hasn't started already. it's not like they have ever had any problem with his choice of materials. certainly some of them might personally prefer a diferent treatment, but vinyl vs shingles is not the issue here.LOL bobl- we are 2 brick walls trying to talk to each other.
it sounded to me as though YOU thought the tar paper was a legitimate look.in some neighborhoods a tractor tire planter in the front yard, and purple and yeller shutters and overgrown grass is a dandy look and the neighbors are fine with that. in other neighborhoods you'll be penalized if the christmas lights you put up are not all white.
it's just a matter of knowing what kind of neighborhood you live in, both officially and personally. after that, it's up to you to either go with the flow or flaunt a screw-you attitude.(btw, magoo will probably have the job done by the time this thread cools down)Edited 7/13/2005 2:41 pm ET by MSM
Edited 7/13/2005 3:25 pm ET by MSM
I don't see him acting as a jerk, i see some of the neoigbors as jerks.like someone said, think there is more than one involved.i don't like what they did, it pizzes me offto me you do what u want on your property within the confines of the law and any contract u signed.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
quote from bobl: "to me you do what u want on your property within the confines of the law and any contract u signed."agreed. but be prepared to accept the neighbors acting like jerks if common sense says that what you are doing doesn't jive with the over-all vibe of the 'hood. you are free to act like a jerk back; just don't be surprised. then you have the situation of jerk neighbors, jerk you, and an unfinished house.
i prefer the scenario of happy neighbors, happy you and a happy finished house?
Edited 7/13/2005 5:35 pm ET by MSM
and what are the neihbors doing to make "me" happy?edit: and who decides what the overall jibe is?bobl Volo, non valeoBaloney detecter
Edited 7/13/2005 5:35 pm ET by bobl
after thinking about this, guess I shouldn't be surprised that people believe they can tell you what to do on "your property".since you are about 5th or 6th in rights to it.first Federal Gov't2nd State3rd (in Ma) the utilities (state has delegated eminent domain authority to them)4th County5th town/citynow it's the neihbors, guess that makes it 7th that you have rights.another thought, if a neiborhood is run down, then you shouldn't try to spruce up your house because it doesn't fit the area's vibe?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
dang, bob- trying to make you happy would probably be a thankless task LOL.sounds like the whole freedom to hold a grudge and gumment-be-all-up-in-my- biznuss thang is a personal crusade for you. have fun with it.
Edited 7/13/2005 7:14 pm ET by MSM
sounds like the whole freedom to hold a grudge and gumment-be-all-up-in-my- biznuss thang is a personal crusade for you.
Termites are a useful part of the environment. But if you get a few termites in your house framing, and you fail to 'crusade' against them PDQ, you will shortly have termites coming outta your ears and they will eat up your whole house.
Government is like termites. We sorta need them but we're not sure exactly why. And if you don't stop them when you still can-- by screaming blue murder everytime they step one toe over the line--they will very quickly eat up your rights, steal all your money, and plaster what's left of you with so many proclamations and prohibitions that you won't know whether to sh!t or go blind....
Nosy sneak-behind-yer-back neighbors are nothing but ad hoc 'goverment' on the smallest scale.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
some folks will take any cue to go into anti-gummament rants-what i'm typing with my cold dead fingers is that this isn't about government, it's about a personal decision catch up to the aesthetic standards of the neighborhood.
magoo never said that the anonymous letter was a threat to take legal action against him.
magoo said that when the official inspector came out, he was nice, understanding and cooperative.
magoo even said, in a later post: "and in some crazy sick way I have to thank the guy for pushing me to focus on the siding. I've made some good progress."most likely, that was the better aim of the letter although it was handled horribly-- to give magoo a push towards his goal.question for bobl and dinosaur- if the anonymous letter had been more tactful and friendly, would it still seem like a slippery slope to dictatorship? we all object to the tone and anonymity of the original letter, but most of us agreed that 4 years pushed the patience of the neighbors. if a guy has a right to take 4 years to make a house in a "pricey" area presentable, the neighbors have a right to grumble, and you can bet they will. personally, i think telling magoo about their displeasure was better than grumbling and gossiping behind his back, where the words can be much meaner.
Edited 7/14/2005 12:12 am ET by MSM
personally, i think telling magoo about their displeasure was better than grumbling and gossiping behind his back, where the words can be much meaner.
What do you wanna bet they were doing the grumbling and gossiping, too...?
If there had been any goodwill on the side of the anonymous neighbor(s), he/they would have come to Magoo and faced him, and explained their point of view in a polite manner, then tried to work out a solution that suited both sides as much as possible in the circumstances.
The way he/they sent and then published the letter anonymously to the whole neighborhood effectively proves a lack of goodwill. And a lack of conviction, too. It's as if the person who wrote that letter didn't believe in his position enough to be willing to stand up for it personally.
As I said a month or so ago when this all started, what bothers me here are two things: 1. The sneak-thief aspect of the letter; and 2. the concept that anybody else but the owner should be able to dictate what a property must look like.
I also stated that Magoo was over the limit of reasonableness with the delays on his project...but it is in defending unreasonable positions against unreasonable demands that we preserve civil rights for all. Any fool can defend someone who is reasonable....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
well stated.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
I live 20 miles outside Bostonwithin the 495 beltthe town has about 35,000 but that really doesn't tell you much because all the towns that about if there wasn't a town line marker you wouldn't know you cross the line, with houses on adjacent lots.is Magoo out for himself? he is living his life the way he wants to. so yes he is "out for himself". living his life the way he wants to, not the way his neihgbors want him too.think that's the crux of where I'm coming from.don't accept hive thinking, believe we control our own lives and the way we live them.that we have property right (even though the SC believes the government owns all the property).I do not live in a commune. the point about the neihbors helping is because they want the work done, but want someone else to do it/pay for it. I'm an individual.you seem to want to tell evryone else how to live their lives. what they have to do, so you can make money off their labor. that's what I see you saying.amazes me how many people want to tell others how to live and what to do.but boy apply that principle to them, and listen to the hollers.give up your rights a bit at a time, no problem.wonder how those neibors would feel if he finished the siding and painted it bright purple with orange shutters and planted wheat in his fron yard.just more to tell someone how to live their lives.it is interesting that their is another poster who has been working on his house for years, but I don't remember anyone telling him to hire someone so his neighbors won't have to have this house in progress near them for years on end. why it that?oh, i understand neighborhood dynamics. there are those who want to be left alone to live their lives, and their are those who want to tell everyone else how to live thiers.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
BS
Only 450K? That's a bargain. Real estate here is just unreal - there's a 2000 sq ft house up the street from me which went 2 years ago for 520k as a gut re-hab; 2 years later it has the same problem as this post.
Almost more housewrap visible than shingles, with an overgrown front yard the owner hasn't touched.
He did, however, re-do the back yard complete with a large redwood pergola and patio area. Priorities.
Do what southerners have done for yrs with "bad" neighbors..
Burn em out..
No home, no complaints, no problems.
Ahem, just don't be the reciever of that same fortitude.
Seriously, ignore it. Nothing good can come from a pizzing match witha skunk.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Time, time, time look what's become of us..
Time is all we have, spend it wisely with fervor..dance for no reason, love with out plans and live without worries..we all can.
I agree with the others on the fact this person should have had the balls to ask you directly what your plans were before approaching the city. And I detest the fact they would even mention that you wouldn't accept help. Who cares if you accept help or not the issue is it isn't done and they are unhappy about it.
On the other hand I do believe it you chose to live in a neighborhood you have at least some obligation to live at or near the standard of the neighborhood in order to maintain property values and appearances. If you don't want to do that then in my opinion you should move. I think 4 years of "under construction" is excessive. But I still think it was handled incorrectly. DanT
I'm not one of the wiser ones, but get your siding up!
Three years is along time to expect a neighbor to endure an eyesore.
I just love chicken-sh!t dweeps that don't have the balls to face you personally but slip anonymous threats under your door then run and hide and try to back-stab you with the BI....
I love 'em so much, that even though you really are kinda over a reasonable time limit, I'd say the constipated son-of-a-skunk who sent you that letter needs a lesson in manners.
Therefore, my personal recommendation is that you take at least another four years, even if that means you've gotta pay for a few extensions on your permit.
Post the letter out front, right next to your building permit. Alongside it, post a notice of your own to the effect that unless and until the cowardly little turd who wrote that letter comes forward and apologizes, your 'new constructionist Ying/Yang' look (i.e.: the black paper in contrast to the cedar shingles) is gonna stay just the way it is....
Sheesh! Yellow-livered Twerp buys one house and figures he's got the right to decide what all the others look like? Who elected him king of the world?
Damn, stories like this get my dander up....
Arrgggghhhh!
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
"I just love chicken-sh!t dweeps that don't have the balls to face you personally "
so ... you'd like my idea of walking over and beating the snot out of the idiot that can't side his house in under the 4 year time limit?
U gonna sign off on that? Or would you like the proper authorities to be notified in the proper methods?
That line of crap you just typed ... was the same line of crap I heard from the crack head father of the idiot kid that was throwing rocks at me and my son last month ...
"this ain't no 'cause for the "authorities" to be called" ...
I'll tell U the same thing I told him ... fine ... next time I'll "handle" it myself ... but for some reason ... I'm thinking that call to the cops will still be made ... just from a different phone.
But back to the original post ... 4 years ... no progress?
myself ... I'd toss a coin.
can of gas ... or call the cops ....
what the F takes 4 years to complete?
Let me guess ... he's doing it himself ... saving money ... etc ...
No love here.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hey Jeff, as I'm reading this tread I'm thinking everything you said. Some cheap #### HO thinking he can play carpenter and save all that money. By the time he gets done siding the job it will be time to restart. Plus why does the neighbor have to confront you, so you can shoot off your big fat mouth about how its none of their business. If you are not capable of finishing the siding, hire a pro.Signed
Anonymous
so ... you'd like my idea of walking over and beating the snot out of the idiot that can't side his house in under the 4 year time limit?
I'd like it better than what happened to Magoo.
Get ready for a liberal-conservative rant....
There is no lower form of life than a sneak without the courage to stand up for his convictions. If some crack-head a-hole is gonna steal your tools, which would you prefer? (a) that he walks onto your site and tries to boost the hardware while you're there and have a chance of stopping him...? or (b) that he sneaks in at 15 minutes to midnight while the cops are all back at the precinct changing shifts and you're home in bed with your wife??
I said Magoo was past a reasonable time to finish the house. I had no idea why it took him that long when I wrote that; maybe he's a lazy jerk; maybe his MIL got sick and he had to pay the hospital bills; maybe maybe maybe...it doesn't matter.
What matters is he owns the house. Not the neighbors. An eyesore--like loud music you don't like--is a subjective thing. But an eyesore, unlike loud music, can be ignored just by not looking at it. Vision is directive. Audition is not.
There's a beautiful, unbuilt-on 6-acre wooded lot right across the road from my house. So when I look out the front windows, I don't have to look at some ugly cookie-cutter bungalow sided with vinyl or aluminum, both of which make my stomach turn. But if I want to be sure that somebody else won't buy that land and put up what I consider a monstrosity, I'M gonna have to buy it first. If I don't, or can't, it doesn't matter why; I have no beef coming. Even though it would break my heart. My opinion does not control the world's taste or behaviour, sad to say, LOL....
It bothers the snot outta me that the subjective feelings of people--in other words, their opinions--should be considered enough to grant those people power over someone else's private property. It violates the entire concept of private property, IMO.
How'd you like it if you got a notice next week from the municipality telling you that according to their new zoning laws, you now had to pick one of their officially approved colour schemes for your house? Don't laugh--this has happened right here in this little parish in recent memory. In my mother's neighborhood not too far from you, bro, you can get a $200 ticket from the police if your neighbors complain about dandelions in your lawn.
My opinion is: if you are so effing sensitive about how everybody else's place looks that it's gonna ruin your day, then buy a big enough lot that you can hide your house in the middle of it and not have to look at anything you don't own.
Don't try to manœuvre things politically to gain power over something that's not yours. That's immoral and repugnant. And bloody childish, to boot....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Sory, Dino, buit it is not just subjective. There are very real, objective rules n place almost everywhere defining the time limits for how long something like this is allowable. hasn't been clearly stated in this case, but it seems like such rules do exist where this schmuck has over-extended himself with great disregard for the rules and for his neighbors. unfortunately the rules are not always promtly enforced, leading to this fiasco. It would be interesting if Magoo could be so forthright as to tell us exactly what the time limit on his permit was, but he seems to be hiding that fact, gaurding it as closely as the neighbor was hiding his identity. There are two sides to a story, but it is clear that magoo was flauntingly obtuse about any regard for the civility he demands should be shown towards himself. That is a criminal mindset. One that says, "I can ignore the rule of law, but you must obey the rules of good manners while I misuse you.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I just got back from Europe.While sightseeing in Italy, I admired a beautiful cathedral. When I inquired how long it took to build, I was told that it took 150 years...
Ed the Ace
Good for you!
I'm happy for ya.
There are some cathedrals that took over four hundred years to complete.But his addition is not a cathedral
It is not in Europe
he has power tools available
And there are different rules in placeSo let's get back to the subject at hand and avoid distractions that have nothing to do with the context of the thread.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't get the feeling he's been hiding whatever the local ordinance states as a time limit; I get the feeling he just doesn't know. I think he's a bit of a slob, but I do not see any 'criminal mindset' in his behaviour at all. I think that's stretching a point until it becomes a line...(and I won't make the obvious pun about a 'line of what'...Lol).
I do see somebody who screwed up on his project by goofing off, according to what he posted later on. And that to me indicates he has a lack of personal pride in the appearance of his home.
Lack of pride is not a quality I admire, but it isn't a crime, and I don't want to live in a society where it is. I wouldn't think you'd want to, either.
I've got two beefs. One is specific to this story of Magoo's: that some self-righteous neighbor published that letter to all and sundry instead of having the responsible neighborly courtesy and courage to go see him and say, 'LOOK, Magoo--this is outta hand. You gotta do something.'
Beef number two is against the entire concept of municipally promulgated laws that dictate the look of a private residence. I understand and tolerate the concept of zoning, but this is not the same thing. There is a world of difference between living next to a house 'finished' in 30# felt and living next to a boiler factory, for instance.
I also have no problem with the concept of controlled-architecture developments. If I had enough dough, I'd build one myself...to MY own taste. But that is ME, acting in my PERSONAL capacity. Again, there is a world of difference between (a) me selling lots to people who contract freely in advance to adhere to defined, permanent architectural standards, and (b) a legal authority such as a municipality or 'neighborhood association'--that is perfectly capable of changing its 'mind' four times before breakfast--coming around telling you you can't have pink flamingoes or dandelions on your lawn or purple paint on your siding....
Remember, if once you let them tell you something you like, next week they'll tell you something you hate....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
hey dino
lots of what you have to say i disagree with but thats why we live here eh?
i can see both sides but i refuse to be told what i can and cant do on my own patch of dirt
sancho rons is about how i feel about that kinda stuff
wish i could remember who posted the sorry so much i offende you letter deal but i read about 4-5 sentences my first thought was how many pairs of knee pads do yoiu go through in life?
pay my bills then you can tell me what to do
You're right, it's your property, as long as you're not endangering anyone else by your actions, you should be able to do what you please. But when you live in a neighborhood where the houses are close together, your life will be much better if you are diplomatic and try to maintain your property in a manner that will make the neighbors appreciate that you live there.
Or you can have the "heck with them" attitude, park the car on the lawn and be the neighborhood wack job that everyone steers clear of. Almost every neighborhood has one.
(I'm not implying that Magoo is a wack job, just responding to Bud's view.)
Edited 6/11/2005 11:35 am ET by rich
There are all kinds of limits on what can be done with or on a property. Limits on min/max building height, on noise, on setbacks, on what can be stored there, on materials that can be used, on amount of glazing that's required, on purpose and use of structures, on signage, on outdoor lighting, on trash, and on and on. The belief that we can do whatever the hell we want without regard for the larger community in which we live is ill-founded. Our actions impact those around us, and sometimes that's enforced through legal means (such as building code violations or violations of municipal ordinances) and sometimes it's a societal desire to be a good neighbor. There's nothing wrong with some simple consideration for others.
pay my bills then you can tell me what to do
Amen.
I would just like to stress once more the difference between a government ordering one around and a private individual trying to do the same thing.
Lots of the complaints I have read in this thread I agree with on a personal basis (like, I am used to seeing houses with black paper or Tyvek or whatever on them, but I still would appreciate the one next to me not looking that way for four years), but I refuse to agree that (a) an anonymous letter is an acceptable way to remedy the problem, and (b) a government should have the authority to force the owner to do it the way his neighbors want.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
The anonymous letter was not the best way to handle the situation. Agreed.
The actions that should be taken by Magoo are based on Magoo's actions, not his anonymous neighbor's actions. He has no control or responsibility over or for his neighbor. He can only take responsibility for himself and work to become a better neighbor and citizen. His actions should be mature responsible and considerate from this day forward. If he is unable to rise to this challenge then he will continue to find himself at odds with some in his community. It's about growing up and becoming an enlightened member of humanity. Focusing on the shortcomings of others as justification for acting poorly is a roadblock to personal growth. Your mileage may vary.
First and foremost, four years is too long - get the project done. If I were your neighbor, I would have made several offers to help by now.
Second, I have to argue against the idea that this will devalue the homes around you. If I were looking at the house next door, I would spend a week, two at the most, to decide if I wanted the house. From a new home buyer's point of view, your house just looks like progress (as long as the site isn't a disaster). I would actually like to see progress if I were moving in. Even if you didn't touch the house during those one to two weeks, I wouldn't know it was a work-in-progress that was going on four years. And the people I'm buying the house from sure wouldn't tell me.
Cars on blocks, knee-high grass and bad paint jobs can devalue surrounding homes but a remodeling job should have no effect.
I can't believe NONE of you figured this out!!!!!!
I KNOW who sent the letter.
It's the dudes wife----Mrs. Magoo!!!!! LOL
Maybe she ain't as patient as he thinks?
BTW----why should the NEIGHBORS be as patient as this guys WIFE??? I am curious about the mindset that frames that thought process.
I am also curious about a guy who treats his neighbors pretty poorly like this for 4 years----and THEN has the gonads to COMPLAIN about the lack of courtesy inherent in an anon. letter.
I have ZERO problem with someone complaining to the proper authorities---but the letters to the neighbors were in poor taste-----just not as bad as Magoos 4 year disregaurd for the neighbors. And NOW he wants to play Miss Marple and investigate the mystery of the anon. letter-----INSTEAD of finishing the house!!!!!!!
No wonder the letter writer didn't talk to magoo about this personally.
BTW----actually I wonder if a NUMBER of neighbors at various times have "talked" to magoo about this----but in the self centered world Magoo operates in he didn't pick up on the hints they were dropping?????
Stephen
These last three posts pretty well sum it up.I'm sure mrs magoo must feel like she has to hang her head in shame when she ventures out...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Mr. Magoo can't see how bad his house looks
because
after all
he's
Mr. Magoo...
>It's the dudes wife----Mrs. Magoo!!!!! LOLPure Genius!
can't believe I missed this thread, but I've been busy -
does cause me to pause for thought...in fact, I'm gonna send a letter to the sob down at the other end of the mile - their kids are all gone now and he's spent all that money he doesn't spend on them on his house - - addition, planters, flowers, etc, hell, he mows his yard every week - -
when he took a tree down, he had the stump ground and dirt hauled in and ya can't even see where it was anymore - - the place looks damn good and it appears finished - - he is clearly being insensitive to neighborhood attitudes - his inconsiderate actions may well cause property values to rise and taxes to go up - -
surely it's not too much to ask that he stretch a blue tarp over some section of the house (or better, let it flap around) - or dig a hole and not fill it in - - he used to have a '65 falcon station wagon that set out a lot, but it's gone now and he puts his vehicles inside -
I'm gettin' angry just typin' this - - who does he think he is, makin' the rest of us look bad? - - grrr....
"there's enough for everyone"
I love you man..that was so wry!
You missed your calling..I think a satirest is in the makeing.
Do you channel Sam Clemens too? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Time, time, time look what's become of us..Time is all we have, spend it wisely with fervor..dance for no reason, love with out plans and live without worries..we all can.
It's the fruit in his diet that keeps him loose. Having a good humour helps him to avoid the PIT falls of life. And clear vision is a result of knowing how to clear out the deadwood and prune trhings back to the necessary things.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"as above, so shall be below"
I know David a bit too well I guess..that road trip was just a shareing kinda time hiccup..I am glad I was able to be with him.
Oh, I got the starmap on the felt paper with chalk..what a bitch. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Insert your favorite George Harrison song HERE.
Yeah, my fingers just got stuck to the key board for a minute there, so I had to tyupe something...LOLSounds like you are starting to feel better.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
In a point of seriousness it may well really have been his wife.
I was helping a guy reno a bath once and the wife wanted to keep the old stool cause it matched the tub and she was trying to cut down the costs.
Hubby wanted a new stool but the boss is the boss so the old stool was kept out in the garage until time to be reinstated.
Later on Lo and behold a look into the old stool and it had developed more than a crack but the bottom of the hole was broke.
Contractor told him him didn't know what happened and talked about himself paying for it when hubby says something to the effect of 'Oh, that. Don't worry about it'.
Ya right. Hubby got his new stool after his personal midnight demo with the crowbar.
be serious
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
Ahhhh, the voice of sanity. Thank you David....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
heh heh
I liked Doud's response the best. Cracked me up.
59254.69
be Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
it was good
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
How about leaving a dead horse in his front lawn while he holds a yard sale,
That is a very astute observation.
I agree with you to a point.There are times when the situation dictates varied responses. If I was Magoo's neighbor and I was frustrated with living next to the eyesore my first inclination would be to speak to him face to face.But, if he is a vindictive type the anonymous letter may be the best course of action. It may not elicit the vision of the American way of standing up for your beliefs but if my house will get egged and my children harassed I just might choose to remain unnamed.Now, this is not to say that I blindly support the neighbor's actions but I do think there is a time and a place for different actions and responses.To Mr. Magoo,It's been 4 YEARS. Finish up the job and give your neighboorhood a break. The guy with the letter might be a jerk but you're not absolved from all responsibility.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
At least WE are on the same team..LOL
If I had a firefight with my one neighbor, it'd take us out too..point to ponder eh? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Time, time, time look what's become of us..Time is all we have, spend it wisely with fervor..dance for no reason, love with out plans and live without worries..we all can.
Look in the mirror, that's the sob who wrote the letter, the other person just delivered it.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
4 Years, We have built Whole Sub Divisions in less time!
Glad its not in my Hood!
Could'nt be that pricey of a Hood if its gone that long! Around here you get 1year, then up dated every 180 days after that!
Think back a year or two ago, anybody in the neighborhood ask when you might finish the outside?
Not to be a PITA, but if the shoe was on the other foot?
This isn't addressing your house but, I have a neighbor that has taken 8 years to do a renovation. For 4 years with no heat and no windows. These are attached houses. The neighbor on the other side had her pipes that were adjacent to the common wall freeze.
Not exactly what this post is about but, I just had to vent. BTW: I complained to him... personally... many times.
If they didn't put there name and address on the letter of complaint then they don't have a complaint, IMO.
My wife has told me that you have every legal right to see every thing that the BI has with your name on it or anything on that piece of property. Including any Letters of Complaints.
We are going through the very same thing with our "Civil War" house. All of a sudden the BI wants us to do 2 to 3 years of work in under one month. We asked and got an extension. He extended it for one more month. Never mind that it has been in its present condition for years with nothing being done about it, until We buy it. We have owned it for less then 6 months and all of a sudden we have to have all of the repairs completed in 1 month.
I can understand the necessity of completing the job before the permit expires. It costs money to get another one. But again that is your choice not his. Who is he to be telling you at what pace you should be doing it at.
I will be leaving earlier then planed from here and gong back to Richmond to deal with this problem.
I wish you the best of luck.
Dane
I will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
I think regardless of the indiscrete letter you have an obligation to the neighborhood. 4 years is way too long. At least button up the view from the street.
I would'nt plan on any retaliation, thats just disrespectful to the patient neighbors. Patient as they are I'd bet they're not thrilled either.
Its too bad thats what it takes to get your butt back in gear.
I'm with maverick and others...4 years is too long. Don't read this incident as pro or con about the neighborhood and who your friends are or aren't, Magoo...seems to me they've been pretty darn patient. If I were selling a house and even one person hesitated to buy it be/c of the stagnant project, I'd be pretty darn upset.That said, anon letters and anon complaints aren't my cup-o-tea. The most egregious act, though, was sending the anon letter to the whole neighborhood. THAT'S the cowardly act. Jumping from nothing for four years to all of this all at once (assuming we heard the whole story) is too drastic. If a single conversation to the HO or a single complaint to the BI woulda gotten action, that shoulda been the starting point. Escalate only if no action, and then in reasonable increments.Mr. Magoo, do you think tar paper 4 years later is reasonable? And were there any other hints along the way that maybe you were pushing the boundaries of civility?Hey Jeff, get your testosterone reservoir topped off recently? R R R
Hey Jeff, get your testosterone reservoir topped off recently? R R R
sometimes the truth hurts?
anyways ... bet the "whole neighborhood mailing" was a simple way of protecting/hiding the sender. Mail yerself one and U can't be blamed.
the old Testo level is resting around "average" ... it's been a hot week trapped in a million dollar kitchen with no a/c and slight breezes ... so I'm not much for "small talk". New const .... every now and then I agree to help a buddy ...
I've been "bonding" with all the "new const" guys this past week ... I lost touch with my sensitive "remodeling" side.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
>it's been a hot week trapped in a million dollar kitchen with no a/c and slight breezesGot pix? I'd like to see what a mil buys in a kitchen.And how much would it be worth WITH A/C?Afterthought...ya always hear the phrase "a cool million." Guess whoever says that has A/C in their kitchen, huh?!
buy a window unit, that would piss off the neighbors.
My wife is doing laquer and faux work a a multi million dollar pad that doesn't have AC on right now too. I wonder how someone could be putting in a lot of wood work without AC. I fear that it is going to be a nightmare when they finally acclimate the house. I have a feeling more than one neighbor was privy to info about the anonymous letter. It might not be your style but how much different would direct confrontation have helped in the long run.
I got this lady on the corner, that would call the sherriff on me every week. making too much noise, heavy equipment, what ever you could thing of. I would not start before 8 am and would quit at dark. It got so bad the deputy knew me by name and would stop by every couple day just to chat. I knock my own cable TV down with the back hoe and she called the cops.
as far as permits, they are good here for one year, then a minute over that time, another permits needed. Full price.
maybe what bothers the neighbors is that there is no target date for completion and they are afraid it will stall and be left undone
This is going on and on ad nauseum and is starting to take on that "cold dead fingers" aura.
There are neighborhoods and there are neighborhoods. They are not all the same, nor are towns, villages, hamlets, and so forth. If the developers have established restrictive covenants, and property owners have signed on to them by buying into a subdivision, then the rules must apply, and all must abide by them.
Restrictive covenants are just that. They restrict certain actions, and the property owners covenant, or promise, to obey the restrictions. It is that simple.
If Magoo owns property in such a subdivision, and there are rules, he must obey.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
This guy junks up a nice neighborhood for close to 4 years. Now you're beating up on the writer(s) of an anonymous letter?
Get a life...the guy screws up on his planning/finance/ambition and is now looking for some sympathy by finding fault with the message.
Consider it a courtesy to be notified and get off your a$$. The next message could be a summons...suing for his underwear.
Edited 6/9/2005 10:15 pm ET by Lenny
I love the Borg mentality being shown.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Thanks to everyone for your comments and thoughts. I had a feeling some of you would tell it like it is. Good or bad.
As someone mentioned, if the shoe was on the other foot, I'm sure it would have been a topic of conversation around my dinner table on some nights. But I'm pretty sure I'd not run off to the building dept. and complain. Instead maybe offer to help the neighbor, like friends and neighbor do.
I hereby blame spending to much time on Breaktime and reading Fine Homebuilding and other home improvement publications for delaying my project!!
Yes, home construction/renovation is not my occupation but I do work in another construction related field. I decided to undertake a few of the more interesting trades such as shingling etc...and this is what I get.
Talk about timing, three days before I received the letter I had already decided to make a big push to finish the siding. Then the letter comes, what to do? Start anyway or be spiteful to the little sh**and pretend nothing happened..............I decided to start, and in some crazy sick way I have to thank the guy for pushing me to focus on the siding. I've made some good progress.
But the real question is how do I find out who wrote the letter. I already have suspects but I'd hate to think for the foreseeable future, I'm blaming the wrong guy or guys.
I hereby blame spending to much time on Breaktime and reading Fine Homebuilding and other home improvement publications for delaying my project!!
Oh that's it!!!!! Blame it on us!!!!! How does one spell ( tongue out flapping and spitting like a cartoon character) HEHEHEHE!
But let us not get childish!
"Sir! You are drunk!"
"Madam! You are ugly, and tomorrow I shall be sober!!" Winston Churchill
Edited 6/9/2005 10:18 pm ET by Jet
"But the real question is how do I find out who wrote the letter."
Why?
U already know which neighbors are your "real" friends ... the one's who stuck up for you ... do U really care which neighbors aren't gonna start out as your best friends?
What's the plans for the info should you ever find out?
Burn them out? Ignore them?
I'd suggest maybe spending more time and energy finishing up the project at hand ... and actually enjoying the fruits of your labors.
If slightly pissed off neighbors are your most pressing issue in life ... I'd suggest thanking what ever powers that be U believe in and not give them (the neighbors) a second thought. Life is too short ... you've already wasted 4 years ... get on with the living!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
>But the real question is how do I find out who wrote the letter. I already have suspects but I'd hate to think for the foreseeable future, I'm blaming the wrong guy or guys.Don't.Blame won't help anything. It's a bad emotion. Let it go and focus on the work. Who cares if makes them look like they won. Until you're doing everything that you can do, focusing on the behaviors of others is a waste of time.
I know you and Jeff Buck are right about moving on. I guess its just human nature to be curious about some things.
Thanks
Let me help you out on this one. This is the text of the letter that you should send to the whole neighborhood.
Dear Neighbors-
I am writing to say how sorry I am for being a bad neighbor. I have created an eyesore for four years and forced you to look at my construction project. It is reasonable to assume that your neighbors would adhere to a certain level of presentability and I have failed miserably at that.
I must also apologize for contributing to feelings of ill will within our community. I have pushed your collective patience to the limit and then behaved as a child when someone finally complained about it. I have not acted responsibly so I understand how it would be difficult to approach me directly. I took the tolerance of some as a co-signature to my insanity. I should have just learned from those good people, the fine art of acceptance.
I vow on this day to put all my energy into remedying this problem. I will have the exterior of my home completed in one week. I will do everything I can to not inconvenience the neighborhood in any way as I complete the interior in a timely fashion.
I will make an effort to mend the fences that I have broken and from this day forward I will be a man and will take responsibility for my past actions and not repeat those mistakes. Thank you all for your patience in this matter.
Your grateful neighbor,
Mr Magoo
Ray, you're an ok dude! I like that bit of contrition as a way to ease any tensions and maybe even come out of this as the good guy. A little self-deprecation can go a long way.I was once forced into something similar. When I bought my truck new in 98, I lived in the center of a city. The first night I parked it in the only available space, around the corner. The air bag assembly malfunctioned, and caused the alarm to go off....at 3 in the AM!!!!! Police were called, but be/c the truck was brand new, couldn't trace the ownership. And I slept through it all and didn't know till I walked outside at 9 am and heard it. Eeek. I'm lucky no one broke a window. 6 Hours of that!!!!!! I wrote a letter of contrition to each neighbor, wrote it from my truck's perspective just to lighten the mood a bit, and included my phone # and offered that it'd be fair if people called me at 3 AM for a bit of payback. No one did, but I got some thank you calls and a whole bunch of goodwill.
Excellent pro-active mature solution!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ray I think maybe you're ready for political office.
Possible thought process of the complaining neighbor:
"Boy I'm sick and tired of looking at Magoo's unfinished house for the last 3+ years. He's a good enough guy, but he obviously is clueless to neighborhood sentiment, or perhap he just doesn't give a flip (how could he NOT know that a 3+ year project is way outta hand?). Well, I've got to live with this guy, and like I said, he seems nice enough. I'd like to avoid a messy confrontation that could damage a potentially amicable relationship. Eureka! I'll send an anonymous letter, thus preserving our relationship. But, just in case he is in the "I don't give a flip category", I'll cc all our neighbors in order to provide some peer pressure. And, I'll notify the BI. No harm in that. Either he's violating ordinances or he's not, and it's up to the city to make that decision."
OK, so much for trying to crawl into the head of the complaintant. Not trying bash ya Magoo, but if you've gone 3+ years on your project, I think you've lost the moral authority to be indignant about the manner in which someone calls you to the carpet.
Good luck with your project.
Can anyone tell Magoo how to upload some pictures of the project? I think everyone would love to see views from the street, side elevation, recent progress, etc., etc...Is anyone else curious?
I decided to undertake a few of the more interesting trades such as shingling etc...and this is what I get.
Ok, thanks, that answers my question--I was wondering while reading the thread what internal thing might hold up external finishing.
And, sometimes "things jsut happen." There's a house that used to be on my drive to work (we moved the office), that is in its second year that I know of, stripped to its bare sheathing boards. The electric and plumbers have been, and it looked like they were blowing in celulose about a week ago.
Then the letter comes, what to do?
Probably not what was my first thought: A trip to the sign man to get a 12mil banner reading "Under Construction, Finished Exterior Surface" and maybe in a nice tourquoise with pink flamingos . . . all put up like housewrap (but with neat edges--can't offend the neighbors <g>).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"But the real question is how do I find out who wrote the letter"No it isn't!!!You are being sophmoric about this. You aren't in high schiool anymore. It is hight time you grew up and acted like a mature citizen. Leaviung an eyesore for that long is a dispaly of a crappy attitude and a lack of regard for your neighbors.The real question here is why you can't seem to get it done.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The reason your other neighbors (the ones with more class) have not said anything about the letter is that they are being polite - although one of them is probably the snake... The others; I'll bet $5 that it's bothering them too. Your wife and kids are being polite too...
This reminds me of a post here some time ago where the guy was asking if the drywall that had been sitting in his house for 8 or 9 years was still good. Reading between the lines it sounded like it was the whole house - not just a attic finish off or something like that... That post provided me with some amusement.
A while back, I commented to someone that "I'll just hire someone to do that...". The guy responded - "Not thinking you can do everything yourself is a sign of maturity". Ever notice how every once in a while someone will say something that sticks...
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you will or should do it... It's an easy trap to fall in. Now, hire someone who can knock it out and stop screwing around... I have siders that can do a 2000 sq ft house complete exterior in a week with 3 guys. Use your time to do something you enjoy or to make money at what your good at.
Edited 6/10/2005 8:02 am ET by DIRISHINME
A while back, I commented to someone that "I'll just hire someone to do that...". The guy responded - "Not thinking you can do everything yourself is a sign of maturity". Ever notice how every once in a while someone will say something that sticks...
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you will or should do it... It's an easy trap to fall in. Now, hire someone who can knock it out and stop screwing around... I have siders that can do a 2000 sq ft house complete exterior in a week with 3 guys. Use your time to do something you enjoy or to make money at what your good at.
Matt, it took me YEARS to figure that out. I'd waste WEEKS working on something that I should have just sub'ed. Sub would have been done in a couple days. The time I was losing to spending weeks on it was offsetting the $$ I was saving by doing it myself.
Live and learn. jt8
In an underdeveloped country don't drink the water. In a developed country don't breathe the air --Jonathan Raban
John---I learned that lesson about doing it yourself about 10-12 years ago.
My wife and I bought our first new car after having driven" beaters" seemingly for-ever. I remarked---if we can afford to buy a new car---we can afford to have it professionally maintained------since that time I haven't done any work on a car or truck except put gas in'em-----I will happily pay a good mechanic
Fast forward to a week ago.
Being in the home improvement game myself----I like to think I can do anything to my house that needs doing.
Well, my wife and I just bought another, bigger house. among other things---it had some "plumbing issues"---things that needed attending to. I put 'em off for weeks and weeks---then made a couple of half hearted---( and incompetent mind you) attempts at doing it myself. After all---I never paid a plumber in the last house( 20 odd years of fixing sinks myself.
finally---I through the crap away that I had bought to "fix" the plumbing with. Had my wife call Agosta Plumbing----my wife was the teacher of one of Tony Agostas' kids.
tony sends out 2 of his guys---they work 2and a half hours, charge me $260---and everything works PERFECTLY. sinks fixed, fawcets fixed , 3 new frostfree hose bibbs installed, drain snaked out------WONDERFULL!!!!
I could have worked on that "to-do" list for a week,still not got it done---and anything I did do would not have been done as well.
BTW----how did I pay for the plumber----i did what "I" do well----I climbed up on a customers roof, took down a damaged TV ant., and replaced 2 pieces of gable trim damaged by the falling Ant.--------took me an hour.
I would STILL be fuymbling with the plumbing!!!!
Stephen
I think it's time to park a "portapotty" on the front lawn for the construction workers. ;)
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
The last few posts are on the mark. You have to live with these neighbors and it sucks not liking your neighbor or your neighbor not liking you. On the other hand, sitting out front on a summer night watching the kids, having a beer with the neighbors is one of life's little pleasures. Forgive some for their childish behavior and do what you have to do to show everyone your a good egg.
1st of all thats what happens when you live in a high priced neighborhood with uppity people jumpin all in yer kool aid like they always do.
MY opinion, its probavly from some bored out of his mind uppity jerk off
2nd its probably not who you think it is
those situations/letters come from people who are close to you but dont have the cajones to tell you to your face.
If it was a legal issue they would have contacted the city. So until the city gets involved..screw'em
What I would do is send a letter around telling all the neighbors who want to help..come and help give them a time and you'll buy lunch ect..
That puts it right back on the idiot who started this mess. Its sort of a up or shut up situation.
if they dont actually help
screw'em
if they do
great you'll get it done faster....
Either way you'll solve the situation
Make the letter something like this....
To Whom it concern:,
Dear Neighbors,
I thank you for notifing me that you think Ive have been taking to long on my construction project.
I appreaciate your offer for help and I am willing to take help from both the author of the letter and anyone else who wishes to assit me in completeing my project.
I will begin working this Saturday and Sunday at 8 AM and will continue each Saturday and Sunday until 5 PM until is completed.
So please show up on time as I will begin promptly at 8AM . I will supply lunch. Thank you so much in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Magoo family......
PS Please RSVP by Thursday afternoon so I can rent the tools you'll be needing for Saturday.
There thats a good put up or shut up letter...I bet the complainer will be the guy who wont show up....
busy body jumpin all in yer kool aid cuz got nothing else to do....
you richfolks really need a life...
we working class would just tell them to pack sand and forget about it....
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yup. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Time, time, time look what's become of us..Time is all we have, spend it wisely with fervor..dance for no reason, love with out plans and live without worries..we all can.
Mr. M- I feel for you. I understand the neighbors' position, and yours too. My feeling is that you own the property, you pay the taxes, do what you want, let them do what they want, but try to have some consideration. (One or two of my neighbors don't like me either - that's a whole different thread.)
On the issue of finding out the name of the person that turned you in, don't waste your time. Aside from the obvious, (What would you do if you got it?) the fact is that municipalities often act on anonymous tips, and almost never reveal who the complainer is. If you file a FOIL (Freedom of Information Law) request, they usually say it's material used for prosecution and it's protected.
Good luck, get to work.
Don
Finish up the outside, Mr. Magoo! What are you trying to do, make an architectural statement?
Early Tyvek?
You're not parking all your cars out in your yard, too, are you?
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
I'll agree - anonymous is cowardly - but they have a valid complaint.
4our years is way too long.
sh!t or git off the pot.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Me. Magoo,
I have a very similar problem, I'm nearing my 4 th yearand just starting on the front of my house.. VERY, VERY, VERY!!!! pricey neighborhood.
I am building a double timberframe, with stone infills between the outside black walnut timbers..
I make habit of getting permits for only small portions at a time and doing those. I too have the requirement for completion on the outside within one year and it often is two.. The trick is that every weekend and many evening hours I am seen working on the house.. That means the inside is pretty much left to be finished later..
Long suffering family!
That's the trick. let neighbors see steady progress every weekend! If they see you out at a movie or something they will feel you haven't kept your end of the bargin up.
Not that I'm unsympathetic, but I do want to point out that just because house prices have been going up and selling fast, etc. etc. DOESN'T mean that your project is not having an effect. It is possible that someone lost a sale, got less for their property or some other loss.
But if you every find the complainer, tell them to come to my neighborhood. I'm going to start a new discussion as soon as I get more facts and details, but basically, absentee landholder, 1,000,000 worth of property, all of it boarded up, numerous code violations, etc.
OK, I have sympathy for the neighbors - but that is because I have had a house undergoing a remodel next to me for the past 7 years. He actually made progress on the outside (finally) 2 summers ago when he nailed some fencing up as siding. Totally messed up my direction giving - I used to be able to say that we were next door to the pink (wrapped) house. Since the boards shrank I now live next to the pink striped house, but it isn't quite as effective from a block away.
It depends on the personallity of the homeowner as to whether I would confront him or call the city. If I was afraid of the guy, then I would probably do it anonymously.
Nowadays confronting someone face to face could put your life in danger. I think you have pushed the time limit. If you reverse the situation, what would be your response?
I'm doing the same thing . Some people have way to much time on there hands . But if I were you , I would like to find out who this person is . Once you know , and they know you know . They will no longer be a problem . Most cowards are like that .
Meanwhile - Kick them in the spleen and make them do the chicken !
Mike- Foxboro , Mass.
Just checking in to see how the project is going... It's been a month, you should be close to done, so how about a pic?
Edited 7/10/2005 2:25 pm ET by Matt
Matt,
Yeah I'm almost done...
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone" -- Mahatma Gandhi
probably upset that yer stagger on the shakes is off ..left , just of center downward, I see trots in line..bad Magoo, Bad.
Joke em iffin they caint take a fart..you got grenades right? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
What are dreadlocks made from?
Why should the neighbor be faced with a confrontation? And you call him or her a coward. Four years and you don't have your siding done. You should be a little more understanding, I think. Maybe you need some more time to finish but I can't believe that your priorities have the least of concern with the feelings of your neighbors. What if one had to sell for some reason and they didn't get the premium value for their house because of an endlessly extended construction project on a house on the street? If I were you I would write a letter of apology, to try to win back the favor of the neighbors in question. You don't think it is one do you? It's probably more like all, even the ones you think are on your side. And then finish the task up asap. Come on!!
You can call us all arm chair psychiatrists but that doesn't absolve you of personal responsibility. You came to the wrong place if your looking for sympathy.
Edited 7/10/2005 11:51 am ET by quicksilver