I am doing a repair around a jetted tub that has a ceramic tile surround on all three sides, problem is the tub did not have a flange for this type of install. The tile was ran down to the top of the tub and a bead of silicone in the corners. Well the grout and silicone has blown away and I can see into the wall cavity.
I was thinking of getting a PVC trim (doorstop profile) and set it in a bead of calk around the bottom of the tile where the tile meets the tub. The width of the trim is more than enough to cover the gaps. I want a adhesive type calk that would tool nicely and be waterproof. What type of calk would be best and am I thinking correctly on this repair???
Replies
Flanged tubs have only been around for 20-30 years, so your situation is not unusual.
A lot depends on how much movement there is between the wall and the tub. If the gap widens measurably when the tub is full then likey a caulked seam will fail. If there's very little movement then caulk can be made to work.
Re the trim approach, there are purpose-made trim strips that may be a better choice.
Dont know if that is the best solution or not but I would say use clear silicone again. Depending on the amount of water and steam those sections are exposed to you will see other caulks begin to spot with mold and once they get that way there is no removing it.
If you are not concerned with the amount of water reaching those sections then I am sure that your approach will work.
Yeah, for this duty a good quality silicone caulk is the best adhesive. The trick is to get absolutely all the old caulk off first, since silicone will adhere to most surfaces, but not to silicone.
Where the surfaces are ceramic (including glazed metal) I've found that a final wipe with acetone, after cleaning, significantly improves adhesion. You can use acetone (with a little bit of care) on the gelcoat surface of fiberglass as well, but don't use it on any plastic or painted surfaces. For surfaces not safe for acetone wipe with alcohol.
And for removing the old caulk, before using acetone/alcohol, there are several "caulk remover" products on the market which sorta work. They don't really "remove" the caulk but they do help to break the bond between the old caulk and the surface.
Tub/shower
I was thinking along your lines. FYI, this is a moderen jet tub that was ment to be set inside a platform/deck, no flanges at all.
It was installed as if it were a flanged tub on three sides......I understand that all old caulk has to be removed and clean, clean, and clean the surface for any calk to perform properly. I totally understand this is not choice fix, if it were mine, I would rip off the bottom row of tile, and rip out the tub and install correct tub. Major project, $$$$$$$, I am looking for a less $$ fix.
My concern is that I plan on laying the bedding calk down and press the trim piece into place, clean up of a silicone is not the most fun thing to do.
mask it
If you cut your tube and use a caulk gun correctly, you should be able to get a nice even bead w/o much tooling. However, if you've had little practice and aren't confident, then use this masking technique:
Dry lay your piece(s) of trim in place . Place a 1.5" wide strip of blue painter's tape about 1/8" in front of all trim pieces and press firmly against the clean tub deck. Also, place lengths of the same painters tape all along the bottom of trim piece about an 1/8" above the bottom edge and press firmly.
Now bed your trim in caulk and tool the caulk squeeze out tight with your finger making sure that you pull all the excess off with your finger except for a nice concave tooled joint that fades to zero just about where the blue edge is. Then pull the tape off immediately after tooling. If you still have a slightly raised edges (from not tooling tight enough, then you can either live with it (it will at least be an even caulk joint and probably better than what you could caulk with a gun) or pull a wet finger loaded with solvent lightly across the fresh bead to push the final raised edge tight.
One tricky thing to consider is that if there is significant movement in the joint and you paste your trim across it then you could have a lot of stress there and could, eg, pull the tile off the wall. Considering this, you want to make use of the flexibility of the caulk to supply some "give".
This means not squeezing the caulk thin, but leaving the caulk layer reasonably thick. It also means not glopping caulk on the full width of your trim piece, but using a relatively narrow bead.
not tricky
It's tricky because you don't understand what's going on with movement and the material.
The caulk, in the case of this moulding adhesion, would be put primarily stressed in the shear plane if the tub were to move. If it does move around, it will be in the vertical plane (due to dead loads of full tub and occupant), not laterally. In other words, the tub is not going to be jumping to and fro of the three walled alcove.
So if you're bonding it to your tile and tub to seal for water (which seems to be the whole point of the operation), then one or the other caulk joints is going to be stressed in the shear plane more than the other when the tub moves. Caulk does not perform well in the shear plane. On is bound to fail whether you put it on thick, thin, gloppy, or sloppy. Forget Dan's caution to allow for "give". Never going to happen. You'll never be able to fiqure out how much caulk to put on each shear plane so that both seals manage the shear stress of a loaded and unloaded tub without one of the other failing. Simply put, caulk is not going to fix or allow for the type of tub movement typical for this type of installation. That's why the tub didn't have a wall flange installed. The rim is meant to bear on horizontal surface and be a tub, not a shower stall. Sure, you can force the issue with the repair you are attempting. And it will be better than a gaping crack. But it will only be temporary and it is not a learned trick. You will most likely have to revisit the seal of the caulk joint on one side of the trim (or the other) from time to time.
Great imput
Thanks for all the comments. I think I have an handle on this!!!
I will fill the tub before I set the trim to conteract the defelection.
Thanks to all!!
This is the handle
If you really want to get a handle on this (and not have to revisit the caulk joint seal for reasons I pointed out previously), then you need a slip joint trim detail. See sketch. Your PVCtrim should be milled in two pieces and not bonded together. It is milled as a 'ship lap' to mechanically shed water and still allow for tub movement in the vertical plane. The bonus is that you can apply the two pieces tight together in an empty tub. This will work....and you won't have to work in your bathing suit.
The caulk seam between the tub and tile is never permanant but is a maintenance item that will need to be removed and replaced every X years. I would never use silicone on that joint since once you've applied it you'll never be able to remove the residue. Use a backer rod if needed and Kitchen/Bathroom caulk to seal the joint.
huh?
You'd recommend kitchen and bath caulk? You mean like this silicone kitchen and bath that you wouldn't recommend?
Kitchen and Bath caulk is a generic reference. It comes in all flavors.
My bad. When I wrote that I assumed that anyone with an average IQ would be able to see from what I'd written that I did not mean silicone Kitchen and Bath caulk. Obviously I was right but should have written it for someone with a lower level of comprehension. I'll try to use shorter, smaller words next time.
shorter, smaller.?
It doesn't matter what font size you use. Just choose words that actually make sense.