It’s been a while since I’ve renovated a house. I was wondering if anyone has a recommendation for replacement window brands for the following application:
* 2-over-2 exterior muntins or SDL
* Replace just sash or window-in-window. Keep existing interior and exterior trim
* Prefer solution where we don’t lose too much window area
* Warm, non-drafty solution
* Exterior cladding for low maintenance. alum or vinyl.
I know Marvin’s product, but that might be too much for this application. I need to get the best look/price combination I can.
Any suggestions much appreciated.
Replies
http://www.milgard.com
I've installed them and lived with the results. Quite impressive, both quality and price. Strong reputation and lifetime warranty to the purchaser.
I did the measurements then called several local dealers and asked if they like to bid on my order. I faxed the list to each and soon had bids that made me smile.
The install was very simple. Done from inside it took about an hour per unit, after the first two.
Thanks for the link. They sound and look nice. Unfortunately, I'm in the Boston area and they don't seem to reach up here. Rats.The Anderson replacements seem a little silly in price. I was looking at Pella just now. I'll call tomorrow to get a sense of their price (I need 2-over-2s, so they won't be from Lowe's. I'll have to check the Pella dealer).Any other recommendations are appreciated.
Why don't you give Milgard a call on their customer service 800 line? Tell them that you're in the trade. They may be able to suggest an alternate company for your area or even do business with you direct.
Just so's you know, I purchased sixteen custom made units through their dealer, most of them approximately 3'X4' double hung, insulated glass for about $200 each.
We just installed a bay Integrity window (made by Marvin, but fiberglass exterior rather than aluminum). They make a very nice window at a price equal or lower than others, like Pella or Anderson. We're planning to replace the rest of our home windows, one or two at a time, with Integrity windows. Just a thought....
Here's another (related) question:One local yard is telling me to do the replacement sash approach (fill the rops and pulleys area with insulation, then do the new jambs and new sashes). My concern is warmth. Is this approach going to get me a comfortable window, or should I stick with a full replacement window?
I guess from my perspective it would depend on the quality of the window you're replacing, plus the budget and wishes of the homeowner. In our case, with a house built in the 60's, and large sliders that aren't energy efficient, it's desirable for us to put in quality windows looking at resale and energy use, etc. (Helpful, too, is the fact that we qualify for $500 tax credit) because the windows fit the "energy star" definition.)Integrities can't be custom made, however, so you need to buy the closest size window. We're planning to put on new siding in a few years, so we're ordering the closest sized window while keeping the current headers. Larger trim outside is fine for us. If you need an exact window match, then you need to go with Marvins, and not Integrities from Marvin.. If your client's windows are basically good, then you don't want to replace the whole window. Again, pricing out the options and having the homeowner decide what they want to do.
Good points. Some more detail: This is an 1850s house with old rope and pully windows in the lower level (see pic). The trim around the windows on the inside is exceptional, so I don't want to lost it by pulling it all out. The windows might also not be square, so the sash replacement seems a little risky to me.The other issues are: the upstairs have already been replaced with vinyl windows, but the historic district commission is now saying that while vinyl is OK, exterior muntins are required.I've done some research to date: Pella, Marvin and Anderson all offer wood clad options in whole units (window in window) with SDL but cost upwards to $600. I am looking at 13 windows, so saving $100-200 per window is not insubstantial.The vinyl replacements are nice in price, and could work, but I can't find a mfg that makes an exterior muntin. Sash replacements to me seem risky both in comfort and fit. Good point on the energy start rebate. I'll look into that to off-set the cost. Any other thoughts are welcome.
Try Infinity windows from Marvin http://www.infinitywindows .com
They are all fiberglas windows. Very similar to Integrity but available in custom sizes.
Good Luck
Restore the existing windows. That's what the openings are made for. And that's what looks the best.
Restore the existing windows. That's what the openings are made for. And that's what looks the best.
That's definitely the best option. Replacement windows will only last 20 years or so and will never pay for themselves in energy savings. An original wood window with a storm window is only slightly less energy efficient than the best replacement windows.
If you DIY, the cost is low - 2 or 3 hours per window, probably $5 in materials (plus glass if required). If you have a pro do it, cost will likely approach that of replacement windows.
The historic homeworks site (http://www.historichomeworks.org) has a lot of good info on windows.
2-3 hours huh?
Tell ya what..c'mere..I got about 25 to do, 36"x44" each sash. 6 over 6, panes are 10x20.
Remove stop moulding, yank sash call that 1/2 hour ( unless ya bust the moulding up) Heatgun off the ext paint and glazing putty...at least and hour. Repair/replace muntins and the same with lower rails ( condensation rotted) 2 hours at least. After milling the muntins.
Prime glass rabbet and frame 1/2 hour unless masking for stain grade inside face then it is 1 hour.
Stain/finish inside of frames and muntins 1 hour.
Reglaze with bedding putty and strike finish on the ext. 2 hours ( about)
Install gasket weather stripping in milled groove in lower sill rail 1/2 hour.
Reinstall in opening and reinstall stop moulding 1/2 hour.
That doesn't include travel time ( OP is at home), ladder set up, tool spread out/clean up..
Glazol putty is 6 bucks a Qt. 1/2 qt per sash, glass is 3.00 ea. 20x10.
That is 7 hours and worst case 18.oo glass.
Not argueing with you, just setting out my info so far, I agree repairing old is better..esp since I am charging 500 per sash for a TOTAL rebuild and primer only, some just need re-glazing and stripping..for about 1/2 that price each.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
yer just gettin' slow in yer old age. <G>
Remove stop moulding, yank sash call that 1/2 hour ( unless ya bust the moulding up) Heatgun off the ext paint and glazing putty...at least and hour. Repair/replace muntins and the same with lower rails ( condensation rotted) 2 hours at least. After milling the muntins.
Don't worry about the stop, it's readily replaced, just get it out. 30 minutes in the steam box for the sashes, 15 minutes each to scrape the paint, call it 45 minutes working time.
BTW, my comments were based on my experience - and the windows didn't need muntin repairs, etc. so that was not included in my time estimate.
Prime glass rabbet and frame 1/2 hour unless masking for stain grade inside face then it is 1 hour.
Prime everything all around - 10 minutes a sash, 20 minutes total.
Stain/finish inside of frames and muntins 1 hour.
Paint sashes with two coats, 30 minutes working time.
Reglaze with bedding putty and strike finish on the ext. 2 hours ( about)
Maybe you are getting slow ;-) 30 minutes to glaze two sashes, tops - assuming you don't have to cut glass.
Install gasket weather stripping in milled groove in lower sill rail 1/2 hour.
No weatherstripping on mine, it just fits right.
Reinstall in opening and reinstall stop moulding 1/2 hour.
Sounds about right.
That is 7 hours and worst case 18.oo glass.
2:34 by my calculation, for my conditions ;-)
But I would add another 2 hours or so to strip the exterior trim, scrape, prime, and paint the lentil, etc. And the storm window takes another 1.5 or so.
So 5.5 to 6 hours per window is a better estimate for a complete job, now that I think about it more carefully.
Like everything else, having the right tools and setup speeds the job. IIRC, John Leeke (the historic homeworks guy) cranks them out in a few hours each. I understand the first few thousand took a little longer ;-)
BTW, I invited John to stop in - he will set me straight :-)
Edited 8/24/2007 4:42 pm ET by woodturner9
I'm not slow, I'm methodical...LOL
No, in this case, they need a LOT more TLC than yer normal quickie fix, and the Upper story , upper sash comes out from the OUTSIDE , off a 28' ladder. Due to the newish jamb liners that were hacked in.
I don'tthink a steam box would do much for god knows how many layers of paint and differing kinds of putty..Urethane putty is a bear even with a heat gun.
Futzing along with other stuff in the mean time, and letting the HO's bank acct. catch up, I get em out and done and back in in a few days, works with my schedule and thiers. If they had all $$$$ and I had all the time, I could probably knock out a sash a day, but I ain't rushing the work. I have other irons in the fire to attend to in the mean time.
edit: Oh, I milled new inner and outer stock for the stops, but I am trying to ssave them a huge painting bill, by re-useing the old stop (inside). These windows are from 1840, as is the trim around the holes.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 8/24/2007 4:48 pm ET by Sphere
I don'tthink a steam box would do much for god knows how many layers of paint and differing kinds of putty..Urethane putty is a bear even with a heat gun.
FWIW, steam works much better than a heat gun. It easily removes a 1/16" to 1/8" layer of paint (my windows were literally painted EVERY YEAR for the last 80 years or so).
But,but,but ...its 100 frikken degrees out there..I ain't addin to it! LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Just curious, how do you manage to steam such a big sash. I have a 100year old house and have heat gunned the paint off. Steam wasn't even thought of.
Just curious, how do you manage to steam such a big sash.
You build a steam box out of insulated sheathing. You feed the hose from a wallpaper steamer or clothes steamer into the box, put the sash in, let it "soak" for half an hour or so, then remove it and the paint and putty comes off easily.
John has links on his site to videos, etc. http://www.historichomeworks.org
Will that also take the varnish and stain off the inside of the sash or does it only effect the painted wood.
Will that also take the varnish and stain off the inside of the sash or does it only effect the painted wood.
I'm not sure - haven't tried it on varnish, just paint.