Replacing a circuit breaker with a GFCI
Panda4812
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I’m remodeling a basement area to have a downstairs kitchen. I want the new kitchen to have GFCI circuits, since it will be a kitchen. It is too hard to trace the existing wires to find the first socket and replace it with a GFCI receptical, so I figured I’d just replace the breaker. No luck. I pull the old breaker out and put the new one in and nothing happens. I figured I had a bad breaker and got another one, same thing. When I take the load off it has power on the output. When I install it with the load nothing happens. I turn the breaker on and it doesn’t trip or anything else, just no power to the circuit. I tried putting the breaker in with no load and connect it hot and it does draw an ark. What is my problem?
Dennis
Replies
If this is a true kitchen (refigerator, stove {cook top & oven} and sink then it needs at least 2 20 amp DEDICATED circuits so that you can't use the existing circuit.
And when I am coverting exist kitchen receptacles to GFCI I install indivisual GFCI's in each receptable. The main reason is that I don't want to have the refigerator on a GFCI. Also you don't know what changes that there might have been in the wiring over the years.
As to your problem did you connect the wire wire from GFCI breaker and did you move THE RIGHT NEUTRAL from the neutral bus to the GFCI?
If you did that then the problem is mostly likely that the neutrals from more than one circuit are connected togethr in a j-box some place, that the neutral is grounded some place, or a leaky load is connected.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill is bigtime correct. You don't want a fridg on a GFI breaker!!!!
Our kitchen is protected by 3 - 20 amp GFI circut breakers and by error the fridg. wired in.
What a suprise you will get when you come home from vacation to find the fridg tripped the breaker, because it will!! Kinda rough on the ice cream
Been there, done that. Exactly that, down to the melted ice cream.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." Thomas Jefferson.
Hey cameraman, Thanks for the explanation as to why you don't want the frig on a ground fault! LOL. I was taking people's word on it, but was not sure what the problem would be, until you laid it out. LOL.
Since I have lights, switches and sockets on this circuit, if I put a GFCI in to replace a socket I'm going to effect something downstream unless I tie the output to the input instead of the load terminals. Is that what I should do? I think my original problem was that the circuit was part of two circuits using a comon neutral. It came off a 3/14 instead of a 2/14. When I went back to trace the neutral I found that.
Actually, I think I'll just bypass the old sockets and run another 20 amp line for all my new sockets. If you have ant other suggestions, please send them.
Thanks for the advice, I don't want the ice cream to melt.
Dennis
Yes, a share neutral, AKA multi-wire circuit, can only use a GFCI breaker is you use a TWO POLE version."if I put a GFCI in to replace a socket I'm going to effect something downstream unless I tie the output to the input instead of the load terminals."Exactly. You can do that.But, sepcially if you are going to be using any heavy loads (counter top MW, toaster, etc) on the circuit running a new circuit or circuits is best.And if the old one was 14-3 it is limited to 15 amps.As I said earlier if this is a full kitchen and not "refreshment area" then it needs 2 20 amp circuits for the counertop receptacles. But you can also have the refigerator and gas stove also on it.BTW, with the multi-wire circuit you need to use wire nuts and a pigtail for the netural. You can't "wire through" the receptacle for the neutral. So you might want to verify that. After circuit splits into separate 14-2 circuits (if it does) then you don't need to pigtrail the neutrals..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks Bill,
I learned a lot on this one. Since it is a full kitchen and I think the code for kitchens here is 20 amps (main kitchen is 2 20 amps) that is exactly what I'm going to do. I'll leave the fridge on the old circuit and bypass the old sockets that will be covered by the cabinets. I was going to raise them to countertops. That way the only other thing on that circuit will be a lamp and storage room light. I will run a seperate 20 amp for the dishwasher and another one for the microwave. I'm going to have everything else on two new 20 amp circuits. Only one circuit will be a little bit difficult to run, it is on the other side of the room but I have a channel next to the I beam to the far wall.
I used to learn from my mistakes, (lots of mistakes) now I ask and take advice. It works.
Thanks again for all the help,
Dennis
"on the old circuit and bypass the old sockets that will be covered by the cabinets."You can't have any hidden junctions. So run a new cable from the last acessabel receptacle to the first accessable one after the cabinets.If that is difficulte you can cut holes in the back of the cabinets and use blank cover plates. But that is only a last resort..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill,
Thanks again,
Dennis