Replacing a door that has narrow frame
I need to replace an exterior door on a rental property. It’s a manufactured home and the door has a very narrow frame around it, like less than an inch. I got a pre-hung door the same size as the old one but the frame on the new one is like 2 inches wider. My neighbor, a construction foreman, says to rip out the old door and cut the opening to the width and height of the new assembly, then frame it in with 2x’s, apparently from the inside. I am having some difficulty picturing how to do this. He’s a busy guy and I don’t wish to bother him if it’s something I can handle. I did offer to pay him to show me how to do this, or have him do the job, himself.
I have a Sawzall and circular saw and framing nailer/compressor, plus 4 foot level. Anything more I need for this job, aside from years of construction experience?
Norm
Replies
Was this a custom door you ordered and can't take it back? If not can you just put a 2" smaller door in, or do you have to have the same size door?
I wonder if terminology is partly the problem here....
When you say 'frame' do you mean the actual door frame that it is hinged to or do you mean the casing that makes up the face of it?
most frames are the same size, but it is common to have the casing on a prehung either be brickmold which overhangs the frame by about an inch, or flat stock 1x4 which overhangs it by about 2-1/2" more.
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Clarify...narrower in thickness (relative to framing 3 1/2 inch nominal size) or narrower as you look at the jamb standing in front of the closed door?
The door is Home Depot stock,36 x 80 inches. It would be easy to order it in 34 inch but the vertical measurement would require a custom door. Is this the way to go?
The door frame is made up of 1x4 inch boards.
Yes, I don't know the nomenclature of doors. Sorry about that.
Norm
since we are having a problem with words, do you have a camera so we can use pictures?
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I'll take pictures of the old and new door.
Norm
The casing of the old door is an aluminum extrusion. The inside wall is covered with 1/8th inch paneling. The 2x wall framing is also covered with 1/8th inch paneling, around the inside, under the aluminum casing. I have pictures, if I can get them here.
You're saying that the original door jambs are aluminum?Are you sure it's 2x4 (3-1/2" thick) framing?Be aware that just about any prehung door you buy will be designed for 4-1/2" thickness (or better) -- the 3.5" framing, plus 1/2" for sheathing and 1/2" for drywall.
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>> The door is Home Depot stock,36 x 80 inches. It would be easy to order it in 34 inch but the vertical measurement would require a custom door. Is this the way to go? <<Why would the height for a 34" door require a custom door. 80" door is a normal size door whether you buy a 36" or 34" door from HD or anywhere else.Joe Carola
It's starting to sound like he is fitting a normal house door into a mobile home with 2x2 framed walls. Those doors were often 6'2 is all. Maybe he found a 6'2" door
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>> The door is Home Depot stock,36 x 80 inches. It would be easy to order it in 34 inch but the vertical measurement would require a custom door. <<Piffin,He said that in post #5 that it is 80" in height and a prehung from HD. Since he said that only the width is the problem and not the height with the 36x80 prehung door he bought, why would the 34" prehung door height be a custom order.Joe Carola
Edited 11/15/2009 8:48 am ET by Framer
Looks like he has me more confused than he has himself. if the 80" door is the right height, so will the narrower one. Some seemiongly confladicting information floating here.
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Someone is all discombobulated..........;-)Joe Carola
So the existing door is smaller in both height and width, than a "normal" exterior door. This is not uncommon for manufactured housing.Somewhere in your town or county, there is a supplier of parts for manufactured houses. They carry all of the stuff that's non-standard for stick-built homes, but common in "trailers".Things like a 54" long bathtub, or a door that's both narrower and shorter than 36X80.Find that supplier, and get the replacement there.
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I know about trailers, I had one for 12 yrs. And most have outswing doors as well as goofy sizes.
I think he's in over his paygrade., trying to retro a standard door in the same hole.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
but he has a sawsall!
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You don't really know that for sure. It could be a coping saw, or a bowsaw. Or a hacksaw or a jig saw.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB
But...oh, nevermind!;)
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If I understand you, you're saying that if you measure across the top of the old door frame it's about 2" narrower than the new frame (with the door trim ignored if not removed). This is because the individual door jambs are thicker in the new unit vs the old.
But the door itself is about the same width as the old one (within a half-inch or so, anyway).
And the new frame, because it's wider, won't fit in the old "rough opening".
Narrower differences (up to about a half inch) you can handle (though some here may gag) by chiseling away the rough framing around the door opening, but that won't work for a 2" difference. So you'll likely have to rework the rough framing that defines the "rough opening".
Complicating this is the fact that it's a "manufactured home", meaning that it may not be framed in a conventional manner. So you may have to re-interpret whatever advice you get based on the "situation on the ground".
Presumably this home has drywall on the inside, right? What sort of siding does it have on the outside? What sort of sheathing behind the siding?
If you have good quantities of both luck and cleverness, it may be possible to remove the existing rough framing and install new without having to do major damage to the drywall. But if your luck runs out you'll probably have to remove the drywall for about 6" on either side of the door opening (or all the way back to the center of the adjacent stud, to facilitate repairing the drywall later) and above the opening (maybe falling 3" short of the ceiling, to simplify patching there).
Then it's simply a matter of reproducing the rough framing for a door opening. This article gives you some hints: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/anatomy-stud-framed-wall.aspx . (Note that the first two diagrams show the same wall framed first as a load-bearing wall and then a non-load-bearing one. Exterior walls are most often load-bearing.)
Used to do insurance work. Had to replace lots of doors after break-ins on older homes where the size was not standard and the home not to famcy we would get a "Solid core wood slab door" we could cut it to whatever size we wanted with a circular saw. It came with no hinges or door Knob hole.So we chiseled in the hinges and drilled for the knob with a hole saw.
Also you can cut down a standard metal insulated house door, take off the bottom "sweep" cut it off, reinforce with a piece of wood cut to fit in the bottom, put the sweep back on which covers the cut.
If a standard 34" door and frame fits the rough opening (Measurement between the studs)buy that, then cut the frame the right height , cut off the bottom and noticed how the bottom sill is attached to the sides, usually a rabbet (Notch) is cut on the bottom of the side jambs to receive the bottom sill. You need to re-cut this in the sides you have cut off, reattach the sill, cut the door to fit.
Sounds harder than it is. Mind you I did lots of this. Depends how handy you are.
If you cut off the bottom, and the door is pre-bored, the doorknob is a the wrong height.
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What's your method for cutting steel doors? Just curious.
If you cut off the bottom and the door is prebored so is the jamb, so you cut both door and jamb off the bottom, the sweep (Weatherstripping) covers the cut. If you are using a prebored door and trying to fit an old jamb then the knob in the new door and strike plate usually (always for me! Lol) won't line up anyway and you will need to chisel a new location for the strike plate and patch in the old one.To cut a standard residential steel clad door. The steel is real thin I use a fine tooth blade for cutting plywood. Clamp a straightedge, usually my 4' level to the door and cut slow. It is noisy so you may want ear plugs. The sweep covers the cut as the blade does make a rough job on the top side. You can cut in only a little on both sides to cut through the wood on each edge then use a metal blade in a reciprocating saw or angle grinder to cut the metal.
Depends on how much you're cutting off. A half inch or an inch most people won't notice, but cut off 3-4 inches and the doorknob gets too low.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
The depends how handy you are comment was not to anyone in particular, People reading this forum need to know it does take some skill. I believe the OP does understand it takes skill. Although it does seem he is in over his head.Yes lowering the knob by 3-4 inches does get it to low. You can put the deadbolt in the door knob hole using a door wrap and re-drill the knob higher where the deadbolt would usually go, but that is not ideal either. That is why my best recommendation is a Solid wood door, cut to fit. (If the existing frame is in good shape.) We used to even get frames that were not put together yet. Then we would cut the top off the frame, cut the top and sill to width. Put the frame together and cut the door to fit. (The door was not hinged or drilled for the knob) Or we could just get one side of the frame and replace the knob side which usually broke.I have also had to cut the top off of a metal door. I got a U-shaped pre-finished metal channel to cap it off. The door would bind at the top in the spring so I took a little off the top and capped it. Three years and it still works good. (Could not cut the bottom and lower it because the bottom had a special sweep that fit into steps in the sill and would not fit if I cut the bottom.A lot depends on what the person wants. In rental situations in a trailer some renters are not the best at taking care of the residence and so sometimes it is not worth the expense of making the opening bigger. ;)
I've cut the top off a hollow wood prehung before. Tedious, but it was volunteer work so labor was free.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
Sorry about the long absence. I thought I was kicked off the site, probably for excessive ignorance, until I was notified of messages in my email. Okay, you have convinced me I'm in over my head. I'll get professional
help. Did I mention this door is part of an add on, probably done by a local handiman, probably not up to code. Thanks to all who contributed to a most interesting thread. Everyone was very eager to contribute, it seems.
Norm
Hey no problem. If you do get someone maybe be there and learn?
I know I have no problem with that but some may not like it.
I am plenty handy and have done all that, but we are trying to advise someone who appears to be lacking basic knowledge and skills in this area.
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