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Replacing a lighting switch

| Posted in General Discussion on November 6, 2001 07:14am

*
I undertook what i thought was an easy task — to replace a single light switch with a combination device (both switch and outlet). Upon removing the original switch I discovered two black wires connected to the switch and two white wires joined in one connecting nut but not attached to the switch. There was no grounding wire.

I’m wondering if the combination device I bought is the problem. It is a combination single pole switch (15A-120V AC) & Grounding Receptacle (15A-125V; 2-Pole, 3-wire). It has a total of five possible connections. I connected each black wire to receiving brass (+) screws and connected both white wires to a single chrome screw. Nothing was connected to the ground. Nothing was connected to a “copper only” screw. When I ran energy to this configuration, both the light and the receptacle worked but the light remained on regardless of the switch position. This remained true both with and without the break-off tab in place. I’ve restored the old switch and wiring configuration until I get this figured out. Any help out there?

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  1. Jeff_Clarke_ | Nov 06, 2001 01:23am | #1

    *
    Uh, ray, your description tells me that you should call an electrician.

    Jeff

    1. David_Thomas | Nov 06, 2001 03:34am | #2

      *I am almost always in favor of DIYers while many others are flaming them for the attempt (Jeff, above, was quite polite). But this time, I agree with the naysayers. Ray, call an electrician or at least a friend who owns a multimeter and who has wired switches and receptacles before. Specifically, I'm concerned that you put two wires under one screw (never allowed) - they should be joined with a third white wire (about 9 inches long) in a wire nut (red or yellow) and the other end of that third wire taken to the silver screw and the break-off tab left in place. I'm also concerned that you didn't know which terminals are which before proceeding (see below). And that you proceeded without any provision for grounding the receptacle (see further below)."Copper only" refers to the wire you should be using, not that particular terminal. If you have aluminum wire in your house you need different switches, anti-oxidation paste, and also a thorough electical inspection to check for problems that arise with Al wiring.The black wire from the breaker panel (probably the one from below but this is where a multimeter would be helpful) goes to either of the brass screws with the break-off tab again with the break-off tab in place. The remaining balck wire, the one that goes to the light, is connected to the remaining screw which is probably brass.Are you done? Is it safe? No. You need a ground wire or another solution. A ground wire could be run or pulled to the switch box but the many variations of how to do that properly are extensive.Alternately, in leiu of a ground wire, you can install a GFCI receptacle. You have neutral and hot and a GFCI allows you to install a modern three-prong plug without a ground. I don't know if they are available in switch/receptacle combos or not, I haven't looked. There are ways to incorrectly connect a GFCI that will appear to work but not provide ground fault protection so I strongly suggest that you leave that to a more experienced person as well.There once were receptacles (old two-prong ones) that didn't use a ground. And they are appropriate for plugging in two-plug appliances like lamps and double-insulated power tools. But NOT near water. And NEVER use a 3- to 2-prong adaptor. Find a real 3-prong receptacle for grounded appliances. But except as a replacement of an existing 2-prong receptacle, it is probably not allowed by your local code authority (i.e. the building department) to add a receptacle that doesn't meet modern codes (grounded or GFCI).Print this out. Find an electrician, friend, or handyman who understands all of it and proceed. -David

      1. lonecat | Nov 06, 2001 06:58am | #3

        *This time I'm for DIY. Ray, go to library or HD and study a book, and then just keep thinking about the problem. Eventually you'll figure it out. Key word is sometimes "pigtail".

        1. James_DuHamel | Nov 06, 2001 05:05pm | #4

          *I am surprised that the white wires are actually in wire nuts. Around here, lazy electricians run a single run of Romex, and simply cut the black wire, while leaving the white wire intact. They connect each end of the cut black wire to the switch. Sounds like this is what your set up is, minus the ground. The wire will run from a hot source to the fixture, with the switch in the middle of the run. James DuHamel

          1. D&M_Woodworking | Nov 06, 2001 07:14pm | #5

            *Unless I misunderstood the original post, you have described a light at the end of the run, with the switch on the hot side.The correct wiring for a switch in this situation is to connect the hot from the breaker to 1 brass terminal, and connect the other black wire to opposing chrome terminal. The whites should, as before, be connected together and not attached to the switch at all.You, however, are looking to install a switch for the light and an outlet, which will necessitate a different wiring scheme:Balck (Hot) from the breaker goes to a brass screw with the connecting tab in place. Black (Hot) to the light gets attached to the chrome next to the switch WITH THE CONNECTOR REMOVED. You then need to connect the two whites along with a white pigtail, which you will attach to the remaining chrome screw (next to the outlet). Last, you need to find a way to ground the switch. There should be a copper wire coming into the box - connect that to the ground on the switch, or connect it to the box and then connect the switch to the box as well.Most importantly, GET YOURSELF A BOOK and learn what the various terms mean - the fact that you thought there was a terminal "copper only" is a little disturbing. I recommend "Wiring" by Black and Decker, available at Home Depot - it details all manner of different circuits, including pictures.d-

  2. ray_hoffman | Nov 06, 2001 07:14pm | #6

    *
    I undertook what i thought was an easy task -- to replace a single light switch with a combination device (both switch and outlet). Upon removing the original switch I discovered two black wires connected to the switch and two white wires joined in one connecting nut but not attached to the switch. There was no grounding wire.

    I'm wondering if the combination device I bought is the problem. It is a combination single pole switch (15A-120V AC) & Grounding Receptacle (15A-125V; 2-Pole, 3-wire). It has a total of five possible connections. I connected each black wire to receiving brass (+) screws and connected both white wires to a single chrome screw. Nothing was connected to the ground. Nothing was connected to a "copper only" screw. When I ran energy to this configuration, both the light and the receptacle worked but the light remained on regardless of the switch position. This remained true both with and without the break-off tab in place. I've restored the old switch and wiring configuration until I get this figured out. Any help out there?

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