Greetings,
We recently purchased an older home in North Central Illinois that came with a 32′ x 52′ polebarn with complete loft.
The main floor of the barn is dirt. It was built in 1988 to house horses.
I would like to renovate this structure to handle my shop work. I’m not particularly fond of concrete floors due to the stress that it can place on knee joints and muscles. Yeah, I’ve heard about the rubber mats, etc. Yes they work but only in the area that they are placed in. I’d rather not place rubber on the entire floor.
What I would love to have is a wooden floor a la older buildings from the 18th and 19th centuries but without the rot.
Tell me if this makes sense.
1. Dig down about 12″ within the structure and lay a 6 mil or better vapor barrier.
2. Drop in several inches of fill. This could be gravel, pea, something cheap but sturdy and compactable. I’m open to suggestions here.
3. Build floor joists using gluelam or pressure treated 2x’s.
4. Cover the joists with substrate or planking.
Does this seem to be a workable solution?
Again, I’m open to any suggestions on how to do this without costing a fortune and without concrete if at all possible.
Thanks in advance,
Terry
Replies
My dad did something sort of similar about 25 years ago in our basement growing up. We hade a lot of water in the basement whenever it rained. Puddles with flow in them. There was a sump in the corner, and the water would run across the concrete floor into the sump, where it would be pumped out. We wanted a wooden floor. So he built a chute through one of the basement windows, and put one dumptruck load of pea gravel onto the bare concrete floor. Raked it flat. Laid thick sheets of plastic on top of the gravel and laid sheets of osb on top of that. (We pre-varnished the sheets of osb on all sides and edges.) The OSB sheets are not attached to anything or to eachother. They simply float on top of the plastic covered gravel. The floor is ugly and utilitarian, but it is sound. It hasn't rotted in 25 years. The water flows through the gravel under the floor and into the sump. The floor stays dry. I'm amazed at how well it's done over the years.
Yes, it will work. I suggest PT 2x frame...gluelam not necessary.
Make sure the elevation of the fill under the floor is above and slopes to the exterior, you do not want water puddling / ponding under the new shop.
A friend of mine had a home on pad and pier foundation. The previous owner had raised the elevation of the yard around the home. As a result, he had water ponding under the home, and sconsequent settling problems. I told my friend he ought to find the lowest spot around the home, dig a trench and drain the water, then backfill to keep the water out.
I helped hm find the lowest spot. We dug a trench to reach the major ponding areas. It worked, water came flowing out and with it...fish. ... hundreds of small 1 1/2" - 2" fish (minnows perhaps). No kidding.
I have a tractor and skid loader. I dug a pond. I have not stocked the pond, but it has catfish and pearch. The boy scouts were recently camping on my property and caught two catfish and a pearch in the pond. People tell me that fish eggs are brought in by birds...on their legs or in their feathers.
Edited 11/18/2005 2:34 pm ET by txlandlord
If you've got the headroom, wouldn't even bother digging. Wrap the perimeter in 2x, lay vapor barrier, lay in stone, pt joist on top...but, digging would work, too.
I have seen floors done in packed gravel and then duck boards, sort of lightweight pallets, laid on top. The floor was dug down a few inches. The perimeter was contained by PT 2bys and the sharp gravel was hard packed in small lifts to a depth of what looked like 4 or 5". The duck board looked like PT 1x3s laid flat every 2' with 1by2 or 3 pine laid flat on top with a bout an eighth or 3/16" between boards.
The duck boards are assembled as a modular system. If you drop something and it falls between the boards it is easy enough to lift a section as they are only about 2' by 4' sections.
There seemed to be no real moisture barrier under the packed gravel. Any spilled water or rain blown in soaks in and dissipates into the ground. Fortunately the pole barn was on high ground. Not sure how this would work with a high water table.
He hadn't laid down the duck boards on every square inch of floor space. Probably 75% of the area. The rest was left as packed gravel.
I can testify that the duck boards are easy to stand and walk on. The upper boards flexing slightly with each step. While it doesn't get, by national standard, too awful cold here the duck boards were a big improvement over standing or laying on damp and cold ground.
In those areas he had planned to drive on, part of the barn was set up as a maintenance garage, he had laid down short sections of PT 2by12 directly on the packed gravel. I'm not sure this later point was necessary as the gravel was pretty sturdy. The planks probably being a good idea if the vehicle was heavy or going to set in one spot for long.
I'm building my shop in similar fashion. 3/4 ' washed rock min 12" depth, 3"x12" pt mud sills in footprint of bldg. (30x50). pt 2x floor joists on sills rigid foam in joist spaces 3/4" subfloor and frame away. I like washed rock for a couple reasons pitch your excavation towards low grade of bldg. even use drain tile if water is a potential problem & it runs right on thru rock like previous post said, also washed rock will absorb a lot of energy created by frost like a big cushion with out much movement at the surface. good idea it works. rock on, Norskeboy
"Drop in several inches of fill. This could be gravel, pea, something cheap but sturdy and compactable. I'm open to suggestions here."
Concrete is cheap and sturdy ~$1 s.f. - and you'd have a great surface on which to lay sleepers and subfloor. I don't know your exact situation, but I'd put a priority on keeping out critters, moisture, and keeping the floor level over time. Sleepers on gravel sounds like a rodent hotel.