Have a customer that has the same problem I have on my house and I still haven’t found a good solution. Both of our houses are in the 20-30 year old range, classic New England Cape Style houses.
The window are mostly wood double hung, and have rotted sills and horrible up/down mechanism that leak air and don’t work.
The windows that are there now have a 4 in flat casing. What would be ideal is get a custom clad window with outside flat casing applied and specify the outer dimension of the casing, so the exterior siding work would be minimal.
Of course the sizes of the windows don’t match anything made today stock.
Classic replacement windows (eg harvey’s) don’t help due to the sill and casing rot.
My window supplier,local lumber yard, can offer me a custom sized ‘Brosco’ Wood windows for 300 each but my it feels like I am replacing it with the same window. that will rot in 15- 20 yrs.
The only other choice is a custom made, clad Marvin for the cool sum of $700-800 per window. Ouch.
Anyone have any experience??
Replies
If your windows rot out in 20 years, you have a moisture and ventilation problem that needs to be analysed and fixed. I would solve that problem before attempting a replacement strategy.
Agree with you completely.
I believe the cause of the rot is the original quality of these 'builder special' windows. From what I can tell the windows were supplied from the vendor with the external flat casing applied and not primed at all.
The rot seems to start at the side casing intersection with the sill.
A little wind blow rain gets in to that spot wicks up the unprimed casing and down into the sill. Once the hidden spot in the sill rots
a little then there is standing water in the depression and a couple of years later the sill is a mess.Of course the windows on the north side of the house are the worst. No sun to dry them out at all.As an aside, I have a customer within 300yd of the ocean with a house that was destroyed in a 1990's noreaster. This house is an annuity for me as the original contractor did not end prime any of the exterior trim. Twice a year I get a call to come replace some more trim, not bad work!!
Had the same problem. Painter didn't caulk where the casing butted the sill. Water wicked and the nails driven up through the sill into the casing rusted. And the casings were finger jointed...joints close to the sill made out the worst. Mine had nosing extensions (also finger jointed) which weren't caulked where they met the sill...could slip a $bill in. Happened to most of the houses in the neighborhood. I've replaced practically all the casings and nosing extensions....what fun. The casings that I did were properly primed and painted and have held up extremely well...would have been nice if the original work was done properly.
depending on the needs of the owner, we either replace the primary window ( usually with an Andersen 400 series ) or we replace the trim
if it's trim , we've had some success setting up a sled and router to take off the old sill down to good wood
then we epoxy a new trex sill
the casing we replace with site ripped 5/4 azek
we're on our third window job this year.... one was replaceing trim
one we replaced 32 windows....
the current one is mixed... some replacement.... some new trim
usually on these rotten windows ther isn't much sense in doing replacement windows... or replacement sashMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey Mike, Got a picture of that sled for the router or how you do that?
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i'll see what i can dig up....there may be oneMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sasquatch, that's not necessarily so. I had a job about 10 years ago that specified Windsor Windows. Simulated divided light, Prefinished PPG sills and casing. So many have rotted. What was happening was water was getting in and couldn't get out.
Usually if water gets into the wood it will just push the paint off and dry out. With the Flexacron (sp) finish adhering so well the moisture can't evaporate and starts to rot the wood. Real disaster. I think clad is the only way to go. Does anybody know about Jeld Wen's Auralast products? I'd like to know how they hold up.
????
>>custom made, clad Marvin for the cool sum of $700-800 per window. Ouch.<<
That's about what I would expect to pay for a good window that wasn't custom-sized.
Steve
I'll admit that windows have gone up in price a lot lately, buit you are paying too much still.
Custom Marvins DH about 625-700 my price
Integrity on this latest quote 410-460
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If you go with the Marvins, let me know. I can show you how to install them with the flat casing applied w/o using the masonary clips with no visible screws to the interior. Make sure you order the HISTORIC thick sill. The stock sill looks horrible with the flat casing.
"It is what it is."
Around my neck of the woods you'd be looking at tilt-pack replacement sashes and bent metal cladding for the sills & trim.....
I have much experience in this department. Best solution I have found is to rip them out down to the framing, fix what needs fixing, pan the ROs, and replace w/new construction units. I usually use Andersen 400s. Seal flanges, and replace the trim. Fix siding as necessary.
Trying to get custom made sizes with applied casing to match an existing hole in the siding is not cost effective. Don't let a little bit of siding dictate your solution.
This is exactly the approach I am currently undergoing on my 1880's victorian, so I'm glad to hear it from someone else.
My sills are rotten and the original double hungs were replaced probably in the 80's with replacement sash. I figured that since they are not worth restoring, why step back in time with Brosco when I can replace them all with a modern, energy efficient window.
The original construction included fitting jambs in place only (i.e., no header), so I am framing new ROs for Andersen 400 Woodwrights (for the "historic-like" details) which are running me approximately $600ea for a 34x64.
Fortunately, I am renovating the interior as well as the exterior which the original poster probably is not...
You go guy. By the way, I have an extra Andersen 21056 (TW 400 series) with clear pine interiors and cottage sashes (never installed of course). It's pretty close to your dimensions though not the Woodwright. If you can use it, I'd be happy to let it go for much less than it cost me.
Thanks everyone for the thoughts, I had come to basically the same
conclusion myself, give up on sizing to siding, find a good basic
window that fits the RO and redo the trim as needed, ripping the stock to fit. Probably with KOMA(same as Azek)
Turns out I can get the right sized Anderson 400 series TW Double Hung for somewhere between $230 and $290 in stock and the local lumber yard.
That's the right deal.Someone mentioned using Trex for the sill, did you mean the grey stuff??So thats the story at the customers house, works great because the white clad Andersons match their trim work very well.
At my house (same problem) My trim work is a beige color. Matches the French Vanilla cladding on Jeld Wen Windows. Unfortunately, that puts me up a price bracket. $480 a window $580 if I want to match the 12 or 12 grill pattern in my current windows.
Its always something!!
And 400 comes in 4 colors.... sand ( beige ) , white, essex green , and bronzeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Anderson Sand is way to dark for mine, Its more of a off white than a beige I guess. Marvin calls it French Vanilla as well.
Don't steer away from a good window because of color. I believe you can get custom colors in the Andersen if you have to go that route. I don't know anything about the new Jeldwens with Auralast but I sure am working on quite a few that we installed between 2000-2003. Alot is lack of maintenance, but alot can be attributed to quality and manufacturing defects. Never again. My house has clad Jeldwen casements from 2003 and no problems yet.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
There is a co. out there that will custom fabricate AZEK to fit any window model, used mostly on new const. jobs. My friend used them on his new home in NC and was very pleased. Check with your AZEK rep.
That is what I do. Use custom sized Marvin Integrity for about $400.00 and then order custom ATW composite trim surround to match house detail or use composite sill and azek ripped 1x to avoid removing siding
Fact - the brosco windows are made to rot and to leak air. Fine for a chap garage or shed/shop, but not for a home.
And the six bill price is about right. I am bidding same and using Marvin integrity windows. They will not rot and are nice looking inside.
You can get them with clad casings, but may not be same size. Fo rthat sort of install, I would buy them with nail flange and make up the sill and casing on-site with Azec. Trying to get an exact fit to siding as it exists means that you will not be able to flash properly and will invite water in, or you will have to rely on gobs of caulk...
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