Hi All
I want to eliminate part of the slope in the back yard.
The retainer wall needs to be 50 feet long , from nil to about 4 ‘ on the other end.
The wall will not be visible from the house (only the top row) and only visible to the odd canoeist/kayacker in the river below. So appearance is not a mayor concern.
The plan for the top of the retainer wall is a patio with firepit , couple of chairs, a bottle of vino……….
Option # 1. 6″ X 6″ Hemlock Beams , 8′ long.
To keep the clay yard from pushing it over , I would set each row back 2″ and backfill with gravel for about 6 to 12 inches. Also embed some Hemlock at a 90 degree angle , back into the clay. ? # 1) How many?
? # 2) How long do the beam tie backs need to be?
? # 3) How extensive a gravel base is needed?
Option # 2. A regular stone block wall.
(Slower to build ,and more expensive unless I can get a deal on “left overs “
? # 4) How extensive a gravel base is needed for a block wall?
Option # 3) A Boulder Wall.
Nice and quick and no base prep. req’d.
P.S. Location is central Ont. so we do get 4 feet of frost once in a while.
Thanks for any help
Stewie
The Sawdust Shop
Hire it all done , nice and quick
and no base prep req’d.
How big a gravel base do I need?
Replies
not sure if it is one of your options, but retaining wall blocks (vs cmu). believe 4 ft is max height without engineer. footing is minimal.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
What is CMU ?
concrete mudular unita "regular" concrete block like used in building a regular wall.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
I just did a cost run for the retaining wall blocks.
Different blocks are engiuneered for different maximum heights. Wieght of ech type also varies but most of the ones rated for from 3' to 4' will be in the 62 to 82 pound range.
I've done a couple of them over the years, and as I age (not gracefully either) weight is becoming more of an issue than actual cost. With the proper drainage plane behind them I agree with you that they are the best diy plane offered thus far.
I live on a lake in Saskatchewan. Ok smart guys Sask is not ALL flat. I build gabions. Stone filled wire cages. RR ties out here get you a Huge fine from Resouces Dept. Google McGaverty Gabions Lots of ideas on retaining walls and erosion control.
Have you checked with the local law man? Site erosion control? Not machines on beach and set back? Don't get part way in and get a stop order Costs huge money!!!!
Before I do any work lakeside I go see the resource fella's and ask for a site inspection and walk around. Makes the permit a breeze. (and I pass my in progress inspections)
If I had access to big boulders and a ton of landscape fabric I would like to build one. My neghbour needs 160 feet x 3 feet high. HMMM
Gabions (sp?) are neat. I recently saw them (in a magazine) used inside a house as a room divider and filled with old water bottles as a garden fence.
I would use the modular wall building blocks. They are already engineered with all of the setback that is need.
The only base is gravel bed and the first row of block is below the surface.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
" Gravel base and first row below grade." Would that be gravel 6" deep and 12" wide (assuming the blocks are 8" wide? Stewie
That seems reasonable. But there area number of "systems". And different size blocks. Most of the "systems" are franchised and manufactured locally because of the weight. So check what is available locally and then get the specs on those. They usually have the details on the website. Typically masonry and landscape supply yards have them. Home horror stores will have a limited selection.And they are available in a number of different patterns, including multiple size and tumbled or fairly plain ones.
.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
You say that the area iis a clay bank, sloping down to a river. So you'd begin by cutting an off-vertical slope into the bank, reserving the excavated clay for fill after the wall is built to the desired height.
I'd use the boulders, starting a foot or so below the desired bottom grade and setting them tight against the new off-plumb vertical slope.
Using the machine to set them carefully and to place the fill, it should be pretty simple to accomplish.
I've worked on walls of this type, several times. I've also used hardwood retaining walls. The boulder walls are permanent while the wood walls have a much shorter life span. The boulder walls have natural appeal which compliment any design choices.
When one has such material, a use for it makes sense.
But Stewie is a newbie. Setting boulders with a machine takes a "willing" person. And someone with a good 3-D organization sense. That takes some practice with stones. You've done it, so have I. It'd be my first choice.
But for Stewie, the decorative concrete retaining wall blocks would be more forgiving and within his level of compentency. Without requiring the equipment. In his case, he should be checking out the big local ceement block companies and see what they offer.
The engineering issue was touched upon earlier. Code (as I've experienced) says three feet for these type of walls. But the inspector will consider soil conditions. Clay? I'd stick with the three feet - above finish grade. More than three needed? Than incorporate multiple walls. And pay close attention to the drainage instructions.
Curves in the wall are more appealing.
Reading Stewie's posts, I get the impression that he approaches each job thoughtfully. He found this board and is asking for expert advice, giving a good description of the situation and the readily available materials. So it seems he's intelligent, resourceful and able to understand when he needs professional help.
From all that I'm guessing that he'd know enough to look for someone locally who owned a backhoe and had built a few boulder retaining walls. Considering that boulders are readily available there and that boulder walls must therefore be common, such a person shouldn't be too hard to find.
What do say that those deductions and conclusions, Watson? ;-)
Well, if such operator is sufficiently skilled, it just may be the lowest cost option...
But if he was like me, he'd buy the dang backhoe and let it sit in the yard for 3 years, dripping hydrl. oil.
"Code (as I've experienced) says three feet for these type of walls. But the inspector will consider soil conditions."
I'm fairly sure that this is outside the jurisdiction of any Canadian building codes. Unless they form part of a required exit, walls, stairs, patios and other outdoor building elements, however dangerous, are not covered.
I'm with you on curves. Adds a sensual touch to the landscape.
A second vote for boulders. Hemlock, unless treated, will be gone in a couple of years. Stacking blocks never look quite right to me. With rocks the spaces in between can be filled with flowering plants. Permanent and maintenance free. Just be careful when placing them. My wall cost me the use of a finger.
If you know a local quarry, inquire if they will make you a deal on a 10-wheel dumper load of some non-spec 12-24. Most quarries specialise in selling a specific colour and grade of stone and any off-colour veins that show up in the blast means it doesn't meet spec so it just gets shoved off to the side where it sits there ....
In '96, when I had to re-landscape my whole yard after a major house rebuild the summer before, I got a 17-ton load of grey-contaminated Laurentian Pink granite for $200, with 50km trucking included. That was enough to build 25 feet of two-tiered retaining wall 6 feet high, plus a set of stone steps and 35 more feet of wall from 0-4'.
All I had to do was meet the owner there on a Sunday (when the union wasn't around) and toss the rocks I wanted into the bucket of the loader. And pay cash, of course....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
If no one will see it, how about used RR ties?
What is non-spec 12-24?
What is non-spec 12-24?
I think you meant that post for me, not Darrel.
'Non-spec' means the stone does not meet the quarry's own grade specifications for saleable product, so they either shove it off to the side or sell it cheap to somebody who doesn't care.
The numbers refer to the size range of the blasted or crushed stone, such as in 0-3/4 (unwashed crushed stone passed through a 3/4" filter screen, thus including everything from rock dust up to 3/4" gravel). For "12-24" all stones in the lot would have a minimum avg. diameter of 12" and a maximum avg. diameter of 24"--what I consider the ideal size for building a retaining wall by hand without power equipment.
I actually have a personal size classification system I like to use. I jokingly sort rock as 'one-hand rock,' 'two-hand rock', or 'diesel-hydraulic rock' according to what it takes to pick it up and put it where you want it....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
" How about used RR ties?" I guess I'd be concerned about longevity and creosote with grandchildren climbing/playing on it. But I did use used highway guard rail posts for a wall around 3 sides of in in-ground swimming pool on a sloping yard with great success. Just paid a little cash to the foreman for delivery . Timing sometimes is everything ( with a dash of creativity or opportunism) Stewie
My vote is for gabions too. I did two separate wall at my house. One was roughly 7' high. I call them retaining walls for dummies....no engineering, no footing, nothing. Just 60 ton of rock.
Craig
Nice job, kept them nice and square. Where did you get the square wire baskets, the ones I get have a diamond shape and are twisted.Buy the way, my back and arms are symapatitc with you!!!
Thanks. The welded wired ones are much stiffer that the twisted wire. Although in person that aren't as level as they may appear on the pictures. I gave up on keeping them perfectly level after filling the first basket....
I ordered them through Lane Enterprises. They have a distribution center in Carlisle, PA. I convinced them to allow me to purchase the gabions direct and picked them up myself.
Craig
I priced gabions and "one hand rock" locally and found the cost comparable to landscape stone.
Decided on a stone block wall as they give more flexibility in sizing/shape of wall than gabions. Also happened to catch an annual clear out sale at the block store and picked up 450 wall stones and caps for $300 (tax in) plus $200 delivery. Regular retail about $2,000. :) I now have 32 "base stone" that are 12" deep , 18" long and about 8" high. 75lbs.? Should be a good anchor, eh? So the plan is 6" of 3/4" stone as base , back fill 3" to 6" wide with gravel, then fill depression behind the wall with topsoil.
I will add a 4" "Big 0" drain under the wall and out over the river bank.
Heigth starts @ 2'4" , quickly goes to 4' , then tapers back to 2'6" , then to 12" about 50' out. Thanks for all your info/ideas. The Newbie Stewie
Sounds very good. Congrats on locating a good deal on the materials. Please start a photo thread on your project and keep updating it. You're just the kind of intelligent and resourceful person who others can connect with and learn from, including an old timer like me.
Thanks for your comments. Tis appreciated :). . Probably will get started late May after garden is in. Photos should also be doable (different skill set req'd) Stewie
Consider landscape fabric between gravel and dirt backfills.