Retrofit Full Extension Drawer Slides
Okay, here is a question that is bound to bring out all kinds of comments.
I have kitchen cabinets that are stick built, face framed with doors and shelves in the bottom and a drawer above that, just below the counter. I want to retrofit full extension drawer slides on the drawers and install some kind of pull out drawer for each of the two shelves behind the bottom doors.
For the existing drawer, the full extension side mount slides require 1/2 ” on either side for clearance. So I would have to build a new drawer box with the proper clearances, pry off the old drawer facing (it overlaps the edges of the drawer cavity), glue/screw it onto the new drawer front, and then install with the side slides. Or I could use a bottom mount drawer slide, but I haven’t investigated the clearances required. Is there a better way to do this without all the refabrication of the internal part of the drawer?
For the bottom cabinet, I’m stumped as to what would be the most efficient way to install drawers without having to rebuild the cabinets. The bottom cabinets have two doors that meet at a center stile. Only one shelf is provided, and the second shelf is really the cabinet bottom. I was thinking of sawing out the center stile with a really thin Japanese saw and then glueing/screwing it to the middle edge of one of the doors, so I wouldn’t have to remount the doors. This would allow a drawer spanning the full cabinet width behind both cabinet doors (actually just a box on slides) to be mounted on each of the shelves. Comments?
Replies
Remove the center stile and mount a matching 1/4" plywood piece to take its place to one of the doors, which of course needs to be closed first. You could also make pull-outs for each side of the stile.
The easiest way to remove the stile is to saw it in the center and wiggle out each half. Could be easy if it's connected with dowels, or harder if nailed or someone used corrugated fasteners. There are all kinds of site-built systems out there...
You basically understand the options, I think. As SG suggests, it may be better to replace the center stile with a piece of matching plywood, but then you have to match the finish.
For the drawers, some mail-order outfits (I'm thinking Rockler may be one) sell drawer box "kits", made up of pre-cut sides.
I've been looking at the same issues myself -- for about 5 years now -- without coming up with anything better. The shelves are a PITA, since the existing openings are too narrow to allow efficient use of the space, but cutting out the stile is a bit drastic, and you'll have trouble getting things to line up well afterwards.
I could cut out the center vertical stile and remount the doors so that they butt up against each other in the middle. I believe I have enough leeway at the hinges to do this, but the result would be either (1) one set of doors that look different from all the other cabinets in the kitchen or (2) I'll have to do all the lower cabinets the same way (forget about the upper cabinets!)
You are on the right track to cut out the stile, and glue/screw it to one of the doors. Look before you start sawing to be sure the face frame isn't put together with pocket screws.
They make face frame brakects for the accuried 100-lb full extension slides. I personally would take out the shelf if possible. That would give you some flexability in the heights of your trays. For example, a high one for pots and pans, and a shallow one for the lids.
You can usually use the bottom mount slides without modifying the drawer box, but they are not full extension. You can use the Accuride 383#, slides, mounted flat, but you have to derate them to hold less. Not sure how much of a problem that would be for your application.
Maybe two Accurides, mounted flat, one on each side of the bottom panel.
If you do, they would have to be perfectly parallel or they will bind. I think the derate is to 60-lbs, can't remember for sure, check the Accuride site. Realistically, a single should work, unless you keep bricks in the drawer.
You could do it your way, ot you could build separate slide-outs for behind each door.
Before you make your decision to rip out the verticals between the doors, you might want to think for just a minute about whether or not those verticals are needed for structure to hold the countertop weight.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
It's hard to say whether or not removal of the stile would have much effect. The countertop is a solid, butcher-block piece of an old bowling alley lane. While it rests on the cabinet, it is most probably supported by a cleat in the wall (the base cabinet is on the end.) Without the cabinet, the coutertop would cantelever over the empty space for a distance of about three feet, which is about 1/3 of the total counter length.
I have to say I like Ralph's suggestion of attaching the stile segments to the drawers better, but here's what I did a couple of years ago. When I attached the replacement stile panel to one door, I found that it looked funny because the rest of the door was held off the face frame 1/16" or so by the rubber bumpers. So I milled 1/16" off one side of the new stile filler to maintain that shadow line around the door. With the doors closed the two pullout cabinets match the others perfectly.
Mike
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This is the kind of thing I was thinking about originally, but I didn't consider the shadow line thing. In my case, we have a dark wood finish on the exterior of the door and stile which might be hard to match if I milled out the necessary 1/16". In my case I would have to take 1/16" off the back of the stile and add some kind of shim between the stile and the door before mounting the stile on the door. Then staining the 1/16" exposed strip would not be noticable if I didn't get the stain to match exactly.
It seems to me all you need to do is add the spacer. If held back from the joint edge it needn't even be stained -- could just be cardboard strips.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Right. A sixteenth of an inch isn't much.
What is the side clearance now on your existing drawers? You probably have at least 1/2" on each side.
You can gain more by rabbeting a step into the lower edge of each side and thereby having the glides recessed into the sides. Simple built out blocking will hold the other half of the glide flush with the face frames.
For the bottoms. You'll probably be happy with just two trays.
Open both doors wide. Will trays clear the doors? Block out and mount glides to clear the face frame on both hinge sides. Remove the existing single shelf. Build your trays to fit between the glides and behind the center stile. Cut out the stile and fit the trays. Attach the trays to the back of the center stile leaving the saw kerfs as clearance.
If the trays are too wide and would sag when loaded, block up from the carcass floor so that another glide can support the center of the bottom wide tray. Block down from the top so another glide can be attached to the top tray via a center support running the depth of the tray.
Now cut your stile loose right under the top tray. You'll have a two segment stile. The saw kerf should be enough clearance. To keep the cut stile from flopping around apply a gusset between it and the trays. Finish all cut ends and the face frame.
To operate, open both doors, grab either stile segment and pull. With the doors closed you'll see a segmented stile but you won't have to remember which door to open or close first.
If, as in some cabinets, the stile is exceptionally wide. you could place pulls in each segment, matching the existing hardware.
Rabbeting each drawer side is a thought that has not occurred to me. Since the cabinets/drawers seem to be stick built, I note that the drawers are rather hunky, with 3/4" dimensioned lumber on the sides. The bottoms are masonite. I do not have the 1/2" clearance on both sides, but a dado or rabbet in the side to accommodate the slides would be an interesting soloution that would keep me from having to take the drawer front apart or changing the cabinet significantly.In order to do the bottom cabinets, I recognize that I will probably have to put in european style hinges to allow the doors to open wide enough to let me pull out a drawer or tray installed in the bottom. I need to look at the carcase more carefully to see if the shelf is structural nor not. One option might be to remove the doors, cut them in half and put a fake front on the trays so that it looks like the doors were still in place. I don't know if the kerf in the doors would look right with the rest of the kitchen, but it is a thought.One way to prevent the trays from sagging when loaded with bricks would be to install 1x2 or 1x3 support strips running the width of the drawer. Of course the thicker the lumber, the more support, but then it takes away from the tray capacity. Maybe build the tray with a longitudinal board, say a 1x4 extending from side to side through the middle of the tray, which would divide the tray in half front to back. You would have to put up with a divided tray, but then, it would support my bricks.Dividing the stile to form a left tray and a right tray is also an interesting solution that I had not thought of.
Well, I told you wrong. The sides of the drawers are 1/2" and not 3/4". The difference between the outside width of the drawers and the opening is 7/16", leaving 7/32" clearance on each side. If we need 1/2" clearance for full extension slides, then this means I would have to route a groove at least 9/32" deep in each drawer side. Since the drawer side is 16/32" wide, this would put me more than half way through the drawer with the groove. I believe that it might weaken the drawer to groove it mroe than half the thickness. Or would this really matter in this case?
Can you notch out the opening at all?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I hadn't thought of that. (In fact, I hadn't thought of most things that are being considered here. My approach is brute force, expensive, and time-consuming!) I believe that the overhang from the drawers would cover the notch. Also, a notch would be easier to fabricate than a groove in the drawer side anyway. Good comments all!
Of course, the notch would be uglier. But it depends on whether appearance when open is important to you.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin