This triangular space has a continuous foundation wall, with a sloped concrete floor inside, leading to a drain. I mention the drain to point out that I can build this to shed water on the interior as well and the exterior. There will be a roof, and, as you can see in the picture, there is already framing (which holds up the roof). I think the previous owners had plexiglas panels on walls and roof. We are going to sheet and shingle the roof. For the walls, we would like to infill between existing studs with a short (3 foot) wall with screens above. The short wall will be covered with horizontal cedar siding, inside and out. The wall will have a cap of some sort, to shed water. While there is a two foot roof overhang, I would like to anticipate some water blowing in through the screen, so my question comes mainly from this concern.
I’m not sure about how to hang the joists, specifically, where to hang the rim joist or ledger on the outside walls. Assuming one end of the joists are attached to the existing house, under the door (just barely visible in the shot, on the left), what do I do with the other ends, along the foundation wall? Do I bolt a ledger to the studs on the interior sides? And then what about flashing? I can visualize how to do the exterior of the short wall, but not sure about how to handle inside.
Replies
This is what I replied to you in your other thread-maybe it applies w/o looking at the other photo's again.
colin
by calvin in reply to colinml [original] on Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:26
It looks like the framing is there (with some additions) to roof it and screen it. Add a door and all sides are taken care of ............but the floor.
For a screened porch (if there's fall in the floor to the drain in the slab) I'd anchor a rim joists all around and then using joist hangers, set in joists. Do the layout so in the center you have a "feature" panel that could be removed IF you should ever want to get down in there for any reason. That puts you on the same level as that deck off the side, but you'd still need a couple steps to get down to it from the house..
or
Build off the top of that foundation-bringing it closer to house floor level.
To make it an addition, consider it a crawl and build accordingly-making access somehow-floor, cut through foundation.
Things I'd question are the roof framing, the possibility of replacing the corner post (and others if I'm seeing it right), size of window openings and addtional wall framing needed to make it right, and electric / heat (if pulling from the house won't cut it. I think it would be a little more than just siding it, stick some windows in it and calling it done.
Best of luck.
Yes, thanks, it does apply, but now that I've actually sat down and tried to draw it, I have realized that it's more complicated than I thought. We've decided not to make it conditioned space. We have a roofer adding some framing above, and he will sheet and shingle, so it will be covered, and, as you said, everything is pretty much in place, except the floor. It's not so much that I don't know how to make things fit, but rather that I don't know how to make it last...i.e., not rot.
I want to come up with a reasonable design before I talk to the permit folks, but I haven't been able to find any example of something that looks like what I already have. I'm nervous about presenting something that is too "creative" if you get my drift. Here's what I have come up with. Does it make sense? Is it weird?
Assume a ledger bolted under the existing door from house, so deck will finish at just below threshold. For the other end of the joists, I bolt the ledger to the inside of the studs. Use joist hangers to hang joists. Since it's a triangle, and I need to add an access to the space under the deck, I'll have to figure out how the joists and blocking goes, but generally speaking, radiating out from house. Run a piece of galvanized flashing behind the ledgers, from a couple inches up behind the siding, behind the ledger, and then down below the top of the foundation, with a small bend at the bottom, for a drip edge. Use spacers (galvanized pipe filled with silicone, slipped over bolts) to hold the ledger away from the studs/flashing by 1/2 inch or so. Infill framing between studs for 3 foot high wall. Cover both sides of wall with horizontal cedar siding, to match house. On the exterior, I just run the siding below the top of the foundation to accompliish the same water sheding thing. Then I cap the wall with something that would shed water to the outside as much as possible. Screens on top of short wall would be panels that clip in.
Not sure of your dimensions, but..............
here's an idea I would look close at. (could you bring that shot of the space and any others you have over to this post?)
It looks like the top of the poured foundation is about 3 pcs of siding below the sill of the door to the house.
Call it 15 inches below.
If so, I'd put one treated plate on the top of the foundation. Next, I'd square straight off the angled wall the door is in, running 2x12 treated joists out to and sitting on the plate (foundation). This allows me to run my decking paralell to the door wall. I would not fan out the joists for any reason (unless you plan on a complicated pattern in the decking).
You can find angled joist hangers to use for your connection at the house as you turn the corner.
Frame the perimeter short walls on top of the joists, deck to the walls.
Box in an access hole off to the side or even in the side doorway (change decking at that entry point as a feature to mask several short deck boards.
You joists will be a bit complicated, but I think the decking run across the house wall will make the space appear bigger.
Your exposed wall, even tho capped and flashed will want to pick up moisture from below (whether you build on top of the joists or not, so I suggest stain over paint for the finish.
You can space the ledger at the house or not-I don't and flash over the top of the ledger. I use blocking as necessary to fasten the decking close to the house without penetrating (making holes) the flashing. If there's wood below the ledger (and there will be in your case I guess) I insert another pc of flashing behind the ledger and out and over whatever wood/foundatioin you have. You can stand it off the house if you wish, but you are pretty well under cover there and personally I don't like that type of connection. Nothing wrong with it, just never did like it.
Yes/No? bogus idea?
Something to kick around.
I'm sorry.
Temporarily support the roof.
Cut those uprights and build the floor system.
Build your wall on top of the floor, either on the decking or deck to it. In a perfect world, they're plumb and offer the proper openings as they sit right now.
But, they'll look like toothpicks and you'll build them out to beef them out.
Eliminate them now, build it new up under the not done yet roof system.
Yeah, that's probably what I'd do.
Ah, ok.
Designing this is hard enough when I'm standing next to it. Must be nearly impossible across the internet with my sketchy details. :) In any case, I think I have an idea. I've been coming at this from the perspective of carpentry, which I know next to nothing about. I decided to try to think about it in terms of cabinet making, which is what I used to do for a living. What we want from this space is diffuse light, a dry, bug free place to sit in mild weather, and a way to create a breeze through the house in the heat of summer. Screen porch was an obvious choice, but, as you have seen, I've been concerned about the water intrusion issues. The more I tried to account for the water intrusion issues, the more expensive things got, and the more like the rest of the house the space began to look.
It's difficult to see in the picture, but the uprights in question are actually a full 3x6. I've been calling them "studs" but they are VG clear douglas fir, and I believe were meant to be seen behind plexiglas planels or something. They actually look proportional to the rest of the house. Frankly, it's just easier to leave them in place. I know I could take them out and put them back, on top of the floor, but is it required? My idea is to run shoji style panels face-mounted on the exterior, full height, and then put a storm/screen door in the opening leading to the rest of the deck. I was thinking flat, translucent fiberglass sheets, mounted directly to the uprights with a fake "muntin" type framework of western red cedar epoxied to the surface. Or perhaps building complete panels in my shop and mounting them ship-lap style. Or, if I get really ambitious, building fully functional, weather tight shoji screens that roll back..
But the main point is, now I have a way to keep rain out, so I return to the original question of the rim. Would it be acceptable to leave the uprights in place and set the joists between them, with rim "blocking," assuming there will be these panels protecting everything? Or is it expected that one would always place the uprights on a plate which rests on the subfloor?
Well you certainly are giving it a try.............
to make a good explanation of what you got and what you are going to do. Sketchy on occasion, but I'm getting a better picture every day.
I would still use the plate on the foundation-run my joists to and sit them on that. Maybe, solid block between your posts. Or, run them out flush with the existing posts (notice I'm not calling them studs now). Then install your rim joist to that-BUT, bevel the top of that rim to shed water - cap that with an angled water table with a lip at the back-run your siding down to that water table. You'd have to make your own if you bevel that rim-or leave it square edged and buy something like AZEK offers. I'll try to copy a picture of that and post it here if I remember.
Install a sill plate and infill with studs between your "posts". Sheet and / or side the interior side of the wall. Make the sill that extends out over the siding on both sides shed water.
I've just returned home, it's 7, I need to get cleaned up, ready the 20 degree bbq for some shrimp for dipping in the satte'.............might be back later-
but, here's a project I did a couple summers ago. You might be able to pull something out of it or just take a look for a good change of pace read. Screened Porch-nice neighbors-great customers-good friends. Challenge of a well over hundred year house, on the whole I think I captured the ambiance of that period of architecture. They love it-it's another "room" to the house. Got 10 degrees above freezing last week-I swear I saw them out sitting in it.
http://www.quittintime.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/12865/an/0/page/0#Post12865
Here's a few pictures
I quickly glanced at your link, but had to run out so couldn't study closely. Will look more later. One thing that did jump out, however, was how the addition ended up looking like it had always been there. Nicely done.
As for my little project, here's a few shots from the back of the house. This is a 20 year old house in the PNW. It has typical Northwest elements that vaguely hint at Craftsman Style, which had Japanese architecture as an influence....soooo...I think a little Japanese element might work here. I'm vacillating between shojis and amados, which translates as "rain doors." Think rolling barn door that functions like a shutter. Might be interesting to build wide steps all around the corner, so it would actually function like a traditional Japanese house. That might be a good way to cover the foundation wall, without too much trouble.
Lots of research to do...
like it had always been there.
Thanks!
They've had some folks stop by and say the same thing. That these comments have come from people walking their dog or driving by the neighborhood as a matter of habit to work or whatever is one of the nicest comments I've gotten over the years.
When we build we take a certain satisfaction in the outcome. When I change or add something to a place and it fits or complements the original, I'm happy as a clam. The design was theirs, refined by a talented architect. All I really did was execute. Still, being a part of it was very rewarding. I like to think I did do more than slap the shit together.
And if it lasts I'll know I did it properly. The house has a hell of a head start on it.