Thought this article was interesting:
http://www.tampatrib.com/FloridaMetro/MGB0XS6VPVD.html
Can you get ring shank gun nails? Doing the ply on a whole roof by hand could be tiresome and expensive.
Democracy, the practice of self-government, is a covenant among free men to respect the rights and liberties of their fellows. [Franklin D. Roosevelt]
Replies
Roar!
dem boys digging real hard trying to drum up a story.
make you really want to buy that rag.
Edited 6/21/2004 10:06 am ET by rez
Sounds like one of those guys quoted has ring-shank and spiral confused (since he is on the Building Code Commission I hope he was just mis-quoted). I do not know of any ring-shanks that turn as they go in unless they are a hybrid with an initial spiral followed by rings. I shoot ring-shanks most of the time in my old Bostich coil gun. They definately are a pain to pull.
In another post you said that you did not like to see the Simpson space/braces as the only bracing for roof trusses. Are you talking about the newer product or the old strap type? The first is a much different item.
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/TSB_PT.html
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/TSF_PT.html
"In another post you said that you did not like to see the Simpson space/braces as the only bracing for roof trusses. Are you talking about the newer product or the old strap type? "
I was referring to the strap type. That's the only kind I've seen used.
"Sounds like one of those guys quoted has ring-shank and spiral confused "
I noticed that too. Based on my experiences with reporters, I'd guess that he was mis-quoted.Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. [Thomas Jefferson]
"Sounds like one of those guys quoted has ring-shank and spiral confused "
I noticed that too. Based on my experiences with reporters, I'd guess that he was mis-quoted.
Two boys in Boston were playing basketball when one of them was attacked by a rabid Rottweiler. Thinking quickly, the other boy ripped a board off a near by fence, wedged it into the dog's collar and twisted it, breaking the dog's neck.
A newspaper reporter from the Boston Herald witnessed the incident and rushed over to interview the boy. The reporter began entering data into his laptop, beginning with the headline: "Brave Young Celtics Fan Saves Friend From Jaws Of Vicious Animal."
"But I'm not a Celtics fan," the little hero interjected.
"Sorry,"replied the reporter. "But since we're in Boston, Mass, I just assumed you were."
Hitting the delete key, the reporter began "John Kerry Fan rescues Friend From Horrific Dog Attack."
"But I'm not a Kerry fan either," the boy responds.
The reporter says, "I assumed everybody in this state was either for the Celtics or Kerry or Kennedy. "What team or person do you like?"
"I'm a Houston Rockets fan and I really like George W. Bush" the boy says.
Hitting the delete key, the reporter begins again,
"Arrogant Little Conservative Bastard Kills Beloved Family Pet.."
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Did you look at the first link? There is a world of difference in the two products. I was very impressed when the GC on our church job used them. If used in correct quantity I think they are great. It looks like a well engineered product that would do a good job. I have seen more poor bracing jobs by folks who did not know as much as they thought they did or did not care enough.
As I mentioned earlier, I've never seen those kinds of spacers used yet.
The spacers/situations I object to are the thin fold-out ones that come in 20' lengths. I often see them holding up trusses with no wood bracing anywhere.
And I've also picked through several piles of trusses that have fallen over where there was no bracing other than the spacers.Cheops' Law: Nothing EVER gets built on schedule or within budget.
I went to FL to do some cleanup for a couple of friends who had houses trashed by Andrew.
The quality of contruction was horrible.
I didn't see it first hand, but an insurance appraiser related that in entire subdivisions they found evidence that sheets of ply were tacked down to the rafters with only one staple at each corner of the sheet.
They should send guys to jail for that.
"...an insurance appraiser related that in entire subdivisions they found evidence that sheets of ply were tacked down to the rafters with only one staple at each corner of the sheet."
I read several reports by engineers who checked out houses hit by hurricane andrew. They came up with all sorts of stuff like what you mentioned.
One report I read said he had found a 40' wall on a house with no anchor bolts in the foundation.
Other reports mentioned plywood with only a couple of nails or staples in it. Some blamed staples as part of the problem - They said the staples were driven in with the gun held parallel to the trusses, so only one leg of the staples hit the truss.
I also recall some interviews with builders after the storm. They said only a handfull of people were concerned with quality in their re-built homes.
Most just wanted to know how quickly the contractor could get their home built.Those who can, do. Those who can't, get patents.
What I remember hearing about Andrew at the time, and mentioned again at the end of this article, is that they found a lot of shiners. With a gun, it's impossible to know whether you hit wood or air on the far side of the ply. On my roof, I went down in the attic and drove the shiners back up, noting which way and how far I had to go to hit the rafter next time. I also put aliphatic resin glue on the rafters first.
-- J.S.
Don't want to go too "Zen" on you, but after a while, you should be able to tell by the sound and "feel" of the gun whether the nails hit wood on the other side of the plywood. In that same vein, a framer told me once that to "become one with the nailgun" you had to have shot yourself at least twice. I opted to avoid that cosmic experience, though a double tap did shoot a nail through the air and my glove into my finger once. Once was plenty. That framer also worked for a crew who wired up the nose safeties of their guns. He needed to adjust something once and stuck the gun between his legs to hold it and it fired, luckily missing the family jewels and the rest of him. I told him that could certainly change ones whole outlook on life!
" With a gun, it's impossible to know whether you hit wood or air "
Sorry to be anal on this one John, but an experienced hand can indeed tell. The problem is that they put a gun in the hands of a newbie and he thinks he's "Super-carpenter" based on how much noise he can make with the tool. Hittong wood with the shanks is inconsequential to his life. Miller time at 2:00 is.
I read one of those study summaries after Andrew that was done to see if codes needed to be tightened up. The result was that the codes were fine, it was the lack of craftsmanship and inefficient inspections that was held to fault.
Then they proceeded to write stricter codes, require more contractors insurance and inspect less, LOL
But your overall point is right - that the sheathing needs to get nailed down before anyone can expect it to stay down.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, I do too often write based on not enough experience. On my roof, I never got to the point of being able to tell if the gun drove a shiner. But that was 3/4" ply over 2x4 rafters 12" o.c. It should be easier to tell with thinner ply and more distance between rafters.
-- J.S.
My DW was there with her soon to be ex. The damage was incredible..what she saw, and I know for a fact, is that entire top chords were litterd with nails, right along side..like they tried to miss on purpose ( I doubt that they did try, just an observation).
I have used CC Sinkers by hand, and they will hold almost as good as a ring..if they hit meat.
Now I do use galvy rings for almost everything, easier to keep stock of just one type of nail..instead of CC's, commoms, rs, and galvies, and what have you.
Yes, they are available for all make and models of guns..pricey fer sure..but for me it's less expensive, than having to go hunt for the other nails..just keep all framing and siding nails galv/RS. in my arsenal.
IMHO if the hurricane is cat4..the heads will be the problem..I have seen WAY too many fasteners overdriven..and pull through, seems like all the framers use the max. pressure to avoid high nails right before the compressor cycles back up, and the first few are sunk through the sheet..not all of us BT'ers..but a lot of uneducated gun boys. I'd rather whap a few, and dial in my gun/pressure then have a postage stamp for a sheet of ply.
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