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Yeah, nail the rafters down, then add the purlin. The purlin is really just a 2x4 or whatever will fit, wedged between the new rafters and the roof over the wall below. Just toenail the rafters into the purlin, should be fine.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
"i know i have to use a valley sleeper but how do i get those rafters on the valley sleeper to extend out 5ft from existing roof to the new porch beam.in order to meet the commons for my facia board.does anyone have any advise."
You run your last common right up against the existing fascia or cut out the fascia and let the rafter hit the plumbcut on the existing rafter.
Now you take a long level or straight edge and run it on top of the new commons across until the bottom point of the straight edge hits the existing sheathing where you stripped the existing roof shingles down to the sheathing. That mark is where the center of the valley will be but it's not where you nail the sleeper.
At the top of the rafters you have to snap a line where the rafters hit the top of the existing sheathing until the line runs into the center of the existing valley and then mark it.
Now snap a line from the top down to the mark you just made and take a small drop off 2x about 8" long and put your straight edge back on and slide the 2x on a flat on the existing roof with the 8"length of the 2x running parallel to your snapped line until it hits the bottom of the straight edge and then scribe the 8" 2x onto the sheathing parallel to the snapped line.
Measure that distance from the first snapped line to the new one and make the same mark at the top and then snap that line and that will keep the top of the sleeper planing in with the top of the new rafters.
OK, here's a simplified sketch, omitting the purlin. The porch rafters are setting on a "sleeper", or flat board, maybe a 1x6, or 1x8. The orange outline represents the plywood sheathing. Does this help?
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"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
To find a thread you already started: Go to the "show discussions" box on the upper left, and click on the arrow so the pop-down menu appears. Then click on "of high interest". The threads you have already posted in will appear. Then click on the one you want. That way you don't have to start a new thread every time. It gets confusing when you have two or three threads, all with the same title, and on the same subject! Don't worry about making anyone mad, just hang around long enough to learn the ins and outs, and you'll do just fine.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Yes, you should nail your rafters directly over the existing ones, as close as possible. But you could add the flat board shown, nail it into each rafter, and nail your rafters over that, toenailed in. Their location should still be over the existing house rafters.
To be honest, if you wedge that purlin in, the weight of the rafters will bear pretty much over that wall, and it becomes less critical that each rafter bear over a house rafter. But I don't know exactly how it will all play out, and I don't know all the details and dimesions of your existing house. Neither sketch is intended to be an exact representation, just a rough idea. Even very specific blueprints often have to be modified a little, hence the common caveat: "Verify In Field."
I'm just trying to show one possibility, and put in in 3-D so you could visualize it. You may not need that short rafter over the valley, or you may want to put it in. It might be possible you could put in your last full rafter, and just run your roof sheathing over to terminate on the L-portion of the house. The decider will probably be how far it is from the last rafter to the end of the plywood sheating, where you snap your line to show the end of the patio roof. And you could add a "sleeper" (flat board) along the new valley - or not. Its your call.
Like my tagline indicates - this advice costs nothing, and is often worth it, too!
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
huck doyou know how to scribe my roof angle, after i cut out the birdsmouth and set it on the beam. i'm thinking of a 1"1/2 depth on the birdsmouth.but do not know how to scribe the roof slope.as you already know i only have a 5ft run from the existing house wall to the new beam.any info will be appreceated from anyone thanks.
Edited 3/28/2006 8:15 am ET by T3
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"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Edited 3/28/2006 11:23 am by Huck
does it matter if i cut out the bdsmouth first and then scribe the roof angle afterwords.
T3,Follow this post I made to you in your first thread.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=71392.18Joe Carola
Whatever works! Trial & error is fine. BTW, here's Joe's pic:
View Image"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Hi, Huck
OK, I've got to jump in here, just to ask what drawing program you're using to get those cool diagrams. I assume you're creating a jpeg for posting them?
Nick
You know what, I'm just using plain ol' Microsoft Paint, and yeah, saving them as a jpeg file for posting. "he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
T3,
Why did you delete the first quaetion in this thread????? Trying to help you here but why do you keep starting new threads and then going back and DELETING the first posts in the new threads? You obviuosly know how to find your own threads so stick to one thread and keep posting on that thread and STOP deleting your FIRST post because now your confusing anyone that reads your thread because they have no idea what your first question is about.
Joe Carola
Edited 3/27/2006 4:20 am ET by Framer
yea whatever works, by wasting lumber.thanks for the info.i just wanted to know the right way from anyone who has experience
Wow, a little testy from a guy who's getting a lot of personalized help for free, here. I spent a little time and drew a detailed diagram showing how to scribe your cuts. Its pretty self-explanatory, but I'd be happy to add an explanation if you need it. BTW, trial and error does not waste lumber if you use the same piece, and carefully adjust the cuts in increments, until it fits. Chill, dude.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
he's worse than testy and Joe and you are heroes for having enough patience to keep trying.I put the ignoramous on ignore a long time ago 'cause he splits his threads all over the place, deletes posts, and goes right on with refusing to try to write comprehensable paragraphs after apologizing for creating confusion. So now he adds rudeness to his profile?
forget him. let the friggin house fall down
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
OK, I'm getting the picture. I'm a little slow on the uptake, I guess =)"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
you have a nice day
hey huck i was not being testy i thought you were telling me to just keep trying till i got it right.beleive me i'm greatful for all the help you and framer gave me.you know people like to comment on me and talk jibber jab. those are the people that can't explaine the kind of info that you and framer did.please don't take it in any negative way. p.s. sorry if i offended you in any way. never let a bad grape out of a bunch poison your mind. oh by the way i did follow your method and by your pics,i set the uncut rafter on the wall and the existing house roof,then i cut the brdsmouth and scribed the roof angle with a scrap 2x,and now that i cut the roof angle the angle doesn't rest properly with the roof slope.one side of the angle cut is higher off the roof just a little. i'm thinking by cutting out the brdsmouth firs,maybe i messed up the roof angle cut.i'l just keep trying till i get it.i think you and framer are still alittle upset with me,but i just want to thank you guys for all the help you gave me.i would not have gotten this far. thanks again.
T3, that entire rafter is easily layed out with a framing square. The overall length is easily calculated using simple geometry and a basic algebraic formula.
The top cut of the rafter is made by marking a level cut on the rafter of the low pitch, then marking the roof slope by placing the square on the level lines.
I always fumble a few times trying to get the right angle, but there's only a few ways to do it wrong...then the correct procedure magically appears.
It's really very simple stuff. So is the math that determines the length. We learned it in beginning roof framing class.
blue
Blue,Remember that thread a while back about getting this angle? Here's the two drawings I did, one with the framing square and one with the speedsquare using a 5/12 pitch for the shed and a 10/12 pitch for the main roof. This is exactly what T3 would do to get that angle if he wants.Joe Carola
Yea, I knew it was something like that Joe. I can never actually remember how to do it till I pick up the square and flip it around a few times on the piece of lumber.
I see your picture of the speed square but I don't understand what edge to mark with it.
I knew it was a useless tool!
blue
"I see your picture of the speed square but I don't understand what edge to mark with it.""I knew it was a useless tool!"Blue,This will refresh your memory as to when you said it would be easier to use a speedsquare. So the speedsquare is not that useless. This link is what I wrote to you and read the next post you wrote to me.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=49588.51Joe Carola
Joe, I hope you know I'm only playing with you but you did seem to dodge my question.
Which edge do your mark with that speed square?
The line on a cut like that might be 36" long. I think you'd have to slide that speed square about ten times to get the piece marked.
blue
"Joe, I hope you know I'm only playing with you but you did seem to dodge my question."Blue,I didn't dodge your question at all. I gave you the link in post #28 that explained it and you understood it the first time back then. How come you can't understand it now? Here's the link again and drawing with explanation.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=49588.51"Which edge do your mark with that speed square?"Look at the drawing and you will see you mark the top edge of the speedsquare and where the number 10 is and make a mark, then take a straight edge or framing square and scribe the angle. The point of this was that someone asked if you can get the angle with the speedsquare and you can with the two points."The line on a cut like that might be 36" long. I think you'd have to slide that speed square about ten times to get the piece marked."I never said that I would use the speedsquare like that. That would be ridiculous. For this cut I always use the framing square. If someone wants to use the speedsquare to find this angle they can and then use a straight edge.Joe Carola
I hope you know I'm only playing with you
How come you can't understand it now?
Ummm, would it be more understandable if I said LOL or put up a smiley face?
blue
"Joe, I hope you know I'm only playing with you but you did seem to dodge my question.""Which edge do your mark with that speed square?""The line on a cut like that might be 36" long. I think you'd have to slide that speed square about ten times to get the piece marked.""Ummm, would it be more understandable if I said LOL or put up a smiley face?"Blue,Yeh, I should've realized you were joking with those stupid questions and saying I was dodging yours, Huh?Joe Carola