I am residing dormers and need some safe access on a steep cape cod roof. I’m a DIYer trying to be safe without spending $ on things I can only use once. I used roofing jacks for the first part which worked well, but I damages some shingles that I now get to replace. So I’m looking for other options.
One idea I had was to set my gorilla ladder with each side hanging over each side of the peak so I could walk down the side of the dormer. The access to set the ladder in place is easy as I can use the back porch to gain easy safe access of the top of the dormer which isn’t as steep. I can access the front of the dormers with my extension ladder. Would you do this?
I better idea might be setting 1x10s on each side of the roof with 2x4s set perpendicular like ladder steps. On each option I would tie the opposite end down so the ladder or 1×10 would not flip up. Feel free to tell me I’m nuts …
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A ladder lying on a steep slope is awkward to move around on, dangerous to work from and probably doesn't conform to applicable safety codes (G). The 1X10 concept sounds worse to me although, to be honest, I've never tried anything like that. I'd stick with the roof jacks or something more expensive, elaborate and safer. Spend the extra time it takes to replace the shingles and be safe.
A safety harness would probably be a good idea too.
Edited 9/2/2008 2:44 pm ET by sisyphus
Edited 9/2/2008 2:45 pm ET by sisyphus
I agree that a ladder is awkward (and uncomfortable to work on in that situation), but the other 1x10 idea we have used many times, we call those "chicken ladders". I prefer to make them by nailing with ring shanks through a strip of 3/4 ply (NOT OSB) into 2 by blocks spaced about 2' apart. Sometimes we hang these over the other side of the roof with rope to a secure anchor point, but I prefer to fasten directly to the roof in a couple spots with structural screws, then patch later. Gives a good toe hold and also protects the shingles.
You make a good point about protecting the shingles. 3/4 plywood sounds sturdy to me. My concern was using 1X stock. Is it because the chicken ladders are permanent that you don't use screws to hold the 2X blocks down?
I have used the aluminum ladder on the roof technique for painting several times but would be reluctant to use it for "hands free" jobs. Much depends, of course, on the slope of the roof, overall configuration of the structure, equipment availability, the skill/nerve of the performer and whether one has to comply with local codes. I respect other knowledgeable people's informed choice about how to tackle a project. What I would allow an employee to do or recommend to a stranger is sometimes not what I might do myself (G).
The ladders arent permanent on the roof, if thats what you mean. I've nailed the blocks with ringshanks as opposed to screws because most screws are brittle and it is possible (though maybe unlikely) that they could snap off. nails will "give" somewhat. And the ringshanks hold well.
When I wanted to fasten them to the roof I,ve used structural screws like GRK's or a lag or two depending on what the roof was
View Image
Get a pair of these to hook your ladder over the ridge, will about $ 40
That's the ticket. What are they called so I can buy them?Found them ... They are ladder hooks ...
Edited 9/2/2008 5:16 pm ET by apiersma
Jayzog's right, those work well. I got them this way:http://www.amazon.com/Qual-Craft-Ladder-Hook-Wheel-2481Q/dp/B0000224MR/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220589053&sr=8-2You'll want to protect the angle iron grippers with some old carpet or towels.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
These have a re-inforced hook:
http://www.abccatalog.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=0160001630
The Qualcrafts stretch out over time to where they don't hook properly. These are a little more expensive, but last better.View Image
I ordered the American Standards from Amazon. I think this will make a big difference in the ease and safety of the job.
>>>These have a re-inforced hook:Yeah, I think they look beefier, but the round rod is a mixed blessing. Nekid, It's better than the angle-iron in the qual-craft, but as Mike says, sometimes it's nice to fasten a block to the hook. Then the angle iron is better.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Yeah, I think they look beefier, but the round rod is a mixed blessing. Nekid, It's better than the angle-iron in the qual-craft, but as Mike says, sometimes it's nice to fasten a block to the hook. Then the angle iron is better.
You're missunderstanding. Both have a steel angle that rests on the roof (that a wood block or other padding can be attached to. The round rod just re-inforces the "hook". If I have time later I'll set the two side by side and take a picture. The one without the welded rod is starting to stretch out.View Image
I have found these to be useful when you need to secure a ladder near the bottom of a roof rather than the top (or when your ladder section isn't long enough to reach down from the ridge):
http://www.provisiontools.com/roof-boot/
-Rich
Do they work at all with metal roofs? I've got lots of work to do next summer on a 10/12 and 6/12 roof with diamond-rib metal.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Scott -
They are attached by nailing to the roof deck under a shingle (like a regular roof bracket) so they would not work on a metal roof.
- Rich
Maybe you could use some snostops or equivalent to help you work on your diamond-rib roofs. They might be desireable over doors and driveways etc. anyway for permanent safety.
In the areas I need to work, snow stops really aren't needed and would complicate things, and they are expensive.I remember the roofing guys that installed the roof had some inexpensive nylon webbing about 2" wide. They would remove a screw, place a ladder against the roof, loop the webbing around a ladder rung, and then drive a longish screw through the webbing and roofing, into the 2X4 strap beneath. Now the ladder was secure.Anyone know of a source for this webbing?Scott.
Edited 9/7/2008 2:02 am by Scott
Any good auto parts store should have nylon strap.
Anyone know of a source for this webbing?@@@REI or any climbing shop. Used to use 2000# tubular webbing for slings. I am sure they have something much improved nowadays.The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
>>>REI or any climbing shop.Ok, thanks. We've got a big outdoor co-op called MEC that sells all kinds of webbing, but I've never used it for screwing down ladders on roofs.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Wile E Coyote would do it with magnets. ; )
>>REI or any climbing shop.Ok, thanks. We've got a big outdoor co-op called MEC that sells all kinds of webbing, but I've never used it for screwing down ladders on roofs.@@@That idea is new to moi. I think I would go with the hangers. I have trusted my life on assorted occasions to that webbing, but not screwed to a roof. Got to wonder about washers and pull through, etc.My practices is that if it's my #### on the other end, I don't go WalMart.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
>>>I have trusted my life on assorted occasions to that webbing, but not screwed to a roof. Got to wonder about washers and pull through, etc.Yes, I've thought the same thing. The roofing guys used a type of webbing that was much burlier than the typical tubular webbing that is used in climbing. Not to say that the climbing stuff is weak, it's just not designed to have multiple screw penetrations.If I can track down the roofing guy I'll ask about it and report back to this thread,Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Yes, I've thought the same thing. The roofing guys used a type of webbing that was much burlier than the typical tubular webbing that is used in climbing. Not to say that the climbing stuff is weak, it's just not designed to have multiple screw penetrations.@@@ I would be happy with a strap off a serious cargo hold down - trucker style. Think I would have a full length metal plate/washer.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
Why not just use steel. Go to HD and get a Simpson hold down or something like that. A 2" wide piece of 16 ga. steel will not have any of the problems associated with webbing.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
>>>Why not just use steel. I'd be concerned with scratching the roof. We're trying to secure a ladder to an enamel-coated metal roof. (I know, I know....this thread has taken a few detours from the original focus...sorry).Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
you don't use them in pairsyou use one ladder hook per ladderit turns your ladder into a "chicken ladder"if you are worried about the hokk digging into your shingle ride, you can screw a block to the hook to spread the weightwe use chicken ladders in a lot of situationsalso... you have to take your ladder apart to use the ridge hook so you have to work with sections that are long enough to get you where you wanta roofer's foam pad comes in handy tooyou can make one or buy a Malco foam padMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 9/5/2008 1:05 pm ET by MikeSmith
you don't use them in pairs
Well, sometimes I do. We've done church roof work where we've had to connect two 20' or three 16' ladders together. That much ladder weight and sometimes 3 people on them at once will straighten out a ridge hook in short order.
I had one once that had dual hooks on it and about a 4" dia wheel. I think I got it from a chimney sweep supply house. Best one I ever had, but I haven't seen one like it for a long time.View Image
You be one crazy roofer grant!>G<
>>>it turns your ladder into a "chicken ladder"Sometimes I read your posts and ROFL, other times I think, Holy Cr@p.The manufacturer says two hooks are necessary. No?Scott "The Chicken"
Edited 9/6/2008 12:08 am by Scott
My opinion will be somewhat one-sided, as I have never used the ladder hooks. I can replace a shingle no problem, but I cant replace my ####! Anytime you spend a significant amount of time on a roof, some shingles will have to be replaced, period. If you set the nails just right on the tabs of the jacks, then all you have to do is sink the nails the rest of the way into the rafters once the jacks are removed. I agree that they are a pain, but I feel alot safer with a 2x10 under my feet than a ladder rung.
I say just do whatever feels the safest to you.
If you purchase ridge hooks with wheels, if they are casters (rather than fixed) you have to be much more careful if you are 'pushing' the ladder up the slope - if the casters allow it to rotate it can run away from you very quickly, likely damaging gutters not to mention anything else on the way down.
Don't ask me how I know that, please <G>
Jeff