first off hello
i am needing some help with a question about my roof. actually i need some opinions on what you all think. i am planning on roofing my house this fall so i got a few estimates from some contractors in the area. i did not let them know that i was also a fellow carpy. the prices i got from the two were only a few hundred dollars apart. when i figured it out they were charging me $275.00 / sq. with tear off. this was for a 30 year laminated shingle. first ? does this seem fair? i live in northern illinois. the house has about 19 sq. and a 12/12 pitch. next thing. both guys seemed to insist on that there was shakes under the asphalt and that would mean sheathing the whole roof which would run $80.00 / sheet. i know there are no shakes under the roof because i framed a small addition on the second floor for a bathroom. is there any honesty out there? to be fair though these contractors were small four guy crews with a dump truck and a tool trailer in tow.
i am planning on doing the work myself.
my questions are these:
1. can i strip the roof to the 1×6 board sheathing(the gaps are over 75% of the roof less than a 1/4″) cover the whole roof with ice and water shield then shingle?
2. sheath over the 1×6 with 3/8″ ply(my rafters are rough sawn 2×4’s 16″o.c.s.)nailed down with ring shank nails into the rafters then 30lb. felt and shingle? my only concern is are the rafters strong enough?
3. dont worry about the gaps 30lb. felt and shingle
or if anyone has another idea please share
i guess in hind sight i should not have done that to those contractors(played them) but i dont take advantage of people so i dont want it to happen to me.
thank you for any help
Replies
" when i figured it out they were charging me $275.00 / sq. with tear off. this was for a 30 year laminated shingle. first ? does this seem fair?"
On a 12/12 roof, it is a friggin bargain!!!!!!
Now let's talk fair - I don't normally use language like that but you have me pissed and getting more pissed the further I read your post because you had no intention of hiring them to do the work but you asked them to waste their time on you anyway, then you accuse them of being dishonest in trying to sell you the extra work involved with the possibility of "shakes" underneath. I don't know if they are right or not but it sounds like they are offering that work as a potential need and letting you lkno wup front what the cost will be if they do find out that is right. Sounds like they are far more honest with you than you are with them.
So do something to convince me that you deserve decent honest advice.
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where ...
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I'm glad you responded first ... saves me the trouble of saying something obnoxious. Very tacky original post.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Right on! It was an insult to decent hard working tradesmen everywhere.
I'm still spitting mad
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ditto
tyke
just another day in paradise
wish i knew the roofing companies i would call them. I live in southern illinois in a semi depressed community and i wouldnt touch a 12/12 for less than 300 more if i find cedar under there. I make a good living down here but the roofing cantractors deal everyday with people who cant afford there work after the bid and they dont need anyon ewasting there time imho that is. AND dont all carpenters know how to figure a roof material list and the basic procedures for doing it. therefor all he did was have someone make a material list for free. Where will he get rid of his shingles? I know down here not just anyone can go dump at teh landfill. I think he owes both contractors for the time they were there at a resonable rate of $50.00 per man hour at least.
An inch to short. That's the story of my life !
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
you said it bstcrpntr and i agree.
tyke
just another day in paradise
Hey! Did y'all notice that this discussion was started by angus1 (that's what you see when you roll over the titles on the left side), but now he goes by gypsumlover? Now this looks really fishy. I think 'dirtbag' is too good of a term for him.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
You can call it anything you want, but you can't scrape the sh!t off of a terd.
That initial post is just too far out to be real.
Me thinks this thread might have been started by a regular under an alias just to jerk you guys around for his/her definition of fun.
I mean they don't still make people like that anymore, do they?
Theodora, is that you?"sobriety is the root cause of dementia.", rez,2004
"Geodesics have an infinite proliferation of possible branches, at the whim of subatomic indeterminism.",Jack Williamson, The Legion of Time
If it were my house I would:
1. strip the roof,
2. repair any areas of the 1x6's that are damaged etc. (dont worry about the gaps)
3. 30lb all over and Ice and water shield only along the eaves, optional along rakes and valleys
4. shingle
BTW: Dont forget drip edge, I go under felt on eaves and over on rakes...but that's another can o' worms.
I missed the part about you planning on doing the work yourself, so maybe you should send them a few bucks for the time they spent estimating your job. Being a carpenter I am sure you understand that their time is valuable.
Edited 7/23/2004 9:55 pm ET by DanteO
In defense of the guys who looked at the job, maybe they mistook the 1x6 for shakes.
angus.. most steep tearoffs we get $500 +
today i bid one that was $2000 plus... they're gonna think about itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i did not let them know that i was also a fellow carpy.
i am planning on doing the work myself.
is there any honesty out there?
Seems to me like your own actions have anwered your question--at least insofar as YOU are concerned....
But I've got a question for you, bubba--How brain-dead does somebody have to be before he logs onto a construction forum and then brags about lying to and wasting the time of two roofing contractors, and then asks for technical advice he shouldn't even need if he is really what he said he is?
Go
Away.
Most of us have to deal with lying conniving jerks during the working day from time to time whether we like it or not. We sure don't need you putting on that act here where we come for relaxation.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
so ya didn't trust them ... because they wanted to install plywood ...
and now you want to know if it's a good idea to install plywood?
I'm lost.
not that I care ... but just why did you get two bids in the first place?
was the plan the whole time to do it yourself ...
again ... I'm lost.
$275/sq ... tear off ... sheet ... and shingle a 12/12 ... doesn't sound all that bad a price to me .... that 12 is alot steeper once yer up there ..... get's even steeper once ya gotta actually do some work.
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I have contracted roofing when ever the job arises,and our rates for tear-off and hauling are $30 per sq. the installation of all, from felt up runs about $25 per sq for a steep pitch another $10 for another story Decking prices can be hazy, but about $18 per sq seem fair on it's install, Next we don't do Ice Dam in Tx. (go figure) Add the materials and I can install roofs for $175 per sq... thats here... Do you want to drive about 21000 nails? even with a gun that's a tough job! do you know how to start your courses so that once you go over your dormer the shingles mesh perfect?Go out and watch some roofers start from one eave andgo around that dormer and not trim at the top of that intersecting ridge...If you don't already do this I wouldn't advise any experimentation to close to home.What is your exposure? what does that mean after 3 courses? (where do you pop your lines for that?)Because if yourexposure is 5" then you must add the remainder of the top of the shingle on the third course. then there are shingle patterns (the bond line repeat)or random Yuo can see why I would hire out anything even so-so in size (I am bidding pitching a hip roof on top of a mansard,with two helpers a nail gun and about 4 days maximum it will be done,about 6 sq material area.
DON'T PANIC!
>>is there any honesty out there?
Aparently not!
First of all Piffin is right. If you are a "fellow carpy" you should know better. And if you knew for sure there are no wood shakes why did'nt you say so?
But secondly, I had my brother who is a roofing contractor give me a price just yesterday on a 12 pitch tear off, reroof w/30 year architects. His price $300 square.
You took advantage of those roofers that quoted. If I were you I would apologise, beg forgiveness, and offer your carpentry expertise in figuring some woodwork for them in their bids if need be.
You probably should have found some friendly roofers, posed your situation to them, and asked for advice.
Not sure why I am bothering replying to you because I think it is reprehensible to get bids when you have no intention of doing business, but until the end of your post I thought maybe you were in my situation. I got bids on my 5/12 roof and found out I couldn't afford a roof - but that's because the lowest estimate was about $350/sq, so I ended up doing it myself, even though I didn't want to. Sure it cost a lot less, but I'm sure we made a lot of mistakes in ignorance, it took us months to do, and it was really hard work. To my inexperienced ear, and after having sweat my keister off handnailing 17 sq, I'd say you are getting a great bargain and you should jump on it.
Leave the gaps in your skip sheathing, you deserve the ugly roof you will get next year when the shingles settle into them. I want those 2 contractors to drive by and see your homegrown job and laugh to themselves as they say "Are no customers honest?"
your pathetic
Musta came back in as a guest, saw the warm postings and beat a retreat...
Haven't customers any shame???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
First off, just ignore Piffin: he's a know-it-all. Your post was fair and reasonable and deserves respectable answers. Many times, a builder can smell something rotten when considering the work of other professionals and you were wise to reconsider.
and never take the advice (rant) of someone who never posts questions!
Regards
Did you not see the line of the post at the bottom where he admits to 'playing' the two contractors? That tells me that his intentions were never honorable, so it doesn't seem like his post WAS fair and reasonable.
would you feel the same if drove across town in rush hour traffic after being on a roof all day, just dieing for a cold shower, and maybe a beer, climb up some roof @ 12/12 and figure a price..then find out the guy never was gonna hire it out any way?
I doubt it.
And Piffen has been in the trenches long enough to be treated with a tad more respect than you showed.
Maybe, the OP will yank your chain next time.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
FWIW, I interpreted dustmonkies comments as a tongue in cheek, sarcastic put-down.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
FWIW, I read dusty with a smile, knowing that I ask a question every six weeks or so, so he couldn't be refering to me in that last part. I wonder who he meant.
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Probably Phill-with-two-L's
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I agree.
If he didn't mean it then he means it now. :)
Lighten up guys, he is not the first jerk you'd ever met.
I bet those two roofers were giving out free estimates.
I don't charge for estimates either but there not free to me.
I don't ride a bicycle to my estimates :-)
LOL, Great post.
Makes me think of a new line,
Giving free estimates is like hookers giving free lookers.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Giving free estimates is like hookers giving free lookers."
LMAO. How appropriate.
beat it dirtbag
"If it were my house I would:
1. strip the roof
2. repair any areas of the 1x6's that are damaged etc. (dont worry about the gaps)
3. 30lb all over and Ice and water shield only along the eaves, optional along rakes and valleys
4. shingle
BTW: Dont forget drip edge, I go under felt on eaves and over on rakes...but that's another can o' worms.
I missed the part about you planning on doing the work yourself, so maybe you should send them a few bucks for the time they spent estimating your job. Being a carpenter I am sure you understand that their time is valuable. " by DanteO