Can someone give me the basics on templating with a router? Or perhaps point me to a site that does this.
I want to do what has to be a VERY common application – cut sink openings in laminate countertops. I’ve been doing them with jigsaw, circ saw, etc. but have to believe using a plunge router and template would be much faster…but don’t really know how to do that. I have a Porter Cable router and need to know what to buy, etc…
Thanks for helping a newbee in this field!
Replies
There two ways to do this...of course you need to have a template for your hole. You can use a top bearing 1/2" cutting pattern bit so the bearing will ride on your template, but this usually means you will make a full depth cut all at once which is not the best way
The best is using a template bushing guide, usually a 5/8" OD. is best as they are thicker and a touch more for the 1/2" bit to cut. This is mounted to your router bottom plate and the guide will ride in your template without wearing out the shape of your template and you can use a regular LONG 1/2" dia., probably 2" cutting flute length, 1/2" shaft size for strength. You will make your hole for the cut a bit larger as the guide is larger than your cut size, if you use a 5/8' guide with a 1/2" cut, a 1/16" over size on each side of your bit....add 1/16" all around your template ...hope that's clear. You may use a smaller diameter cutter but it's shaft being 1/2" is best. You can plunge as little or much as you wish with this set-up.
Just clamp your template to the counter somehow and there you go....just put something like a tarp in a bundle in the cabinet, or whatever way you come up with, so when the cutout drops you won't damage the inside of the cabinet.
You may want a vacuum connect or you will deal with the dust, of course.
Edited 2/17/2006 1:01 am ET by zorrosdens
Thanks, that's just what I needed.
Ronnie was curious...saying that for a common application he has " to believe using a plunge router and template would be much faster..."to cut sink openings
Nope- it wouldn't likely be faster than a jig saw, at least until they get on-site co2 lasers. .
So you got to install a new sink, well, they generally come with a cardboard template, which you can tape down on yer countertop and position so that you ain't cutting through the front of yer cabinet nor be so close to the back that you cannot install or finish the backsplash-beit tile or laminate, You simply use the jigsaw with a fine tooth blade, (I prefer hacksaw blades) of even a downcutting blade. There is to my experience, no other reason for having a router on-side in a kitchen install, but there is plenty of reason for a jig saw. Why truck two tools when one would do.
So you got an old sink that you have to replace, you just take a 3'x2' of cardboard or core-plast and trace the outline of the existing sink before you get too far into yer tear out. Install yer new cabinets if that's in the cards, , and new countertop, relocate the template along the wall in alignment with yer sink unit, and cut agin with a jig saw, and bob's yer uncle. With any luck yer drains line up and except for cutting enuf clearance to use an 1 1/2 ABS coubling, yer plumbing costs is minimal
To my way of thinking, the less dust I can distribute about a kitchen or house, the better I look, and the happier my client is. Use a router, and I got dust bigtime. The costs in clean up, the inconvenience and annnoyance to the client, , why they just increase. That in itself is enuf reason not to use a router
Moreover, on a re-installed sink, it ain't unlikley that the original template wasn't really followed closely , so it sometimes happens that even when you follow the originally installed sinks template (which youof course know is easily traced from the hole left by the sink you pull out) , you will likely sometimes find it too tight to simply drop the old sink back in, with yer "plumbers putty" on it, so you gotta trim a tad here and there, or else yer wasting time fighting with it, repairing/replacing yer putty seal, and generally wasting yer time. .
I got several routers in the shop, from cordless to a huge honking antique "mother of all routers" Stanley, and not once have I ever been tempted to do a sink cut out with one. (I never cut out sinks except on site) However do-able it might be
Yer still gonna have to carry the jig-saw anyway, so why not just plan on using it. Why carry two tools in and out of the job site, when one will do. Besides, yer gonna have to transmogrify the sink mfgrs template to yer router template, so by going the router/template route, you is introducing not just one but two extra steps. (expanding their template drawing for your router template, and then cutting yer own template for yer router) for what? the ability to make noise and clean up dust later? Not me. And if I needed to do some fine tuning to get a sink in, I'd not be trying to re-position a template, but just reach for the jig saw anyway. Think one tool, not two.
Maybe if you was installing 27 identical sinks , you might be...MIGHT BE...money ahead, but i betcha just when yer thinkin yer money ahead, you'll find that somebody installed a different sink or wants to install a different sink , and you'll be, with all the fore-planning for effeciency, money behind cause you blotched the cut out and have to supply a new countertop....or a new sink, and there, my friend, goes every nickle of yer visualized savings. Or worse yet, so reliant on yer router method that you forgot to bring along the jig-saw.
Once the layout is centred and verified on the sink unit, I betcha it takes me no more than three minutes to do the actual sink cut out. It's the layout and confirmation that takes the time, not the actual cutting
Like they say, God is in the details, and even if Ronnie can implement this concept effectively, and mill out a dozen countertops this way, sooner of later he's gonna encounter the 24" countertop, and the template and plunge routing idea is gonna be abandoned in deference to the jig saw. And he ain't gonna be able to predict when that is gonna happen
Ronnie offers his experience in this area as a "newbie" and I'd believe this when he says he's cut sink openings with a skill saw in addition to his jig saw. Speaking as one who once was a newbie, you do this once, and then you realize that the ratio of the risk related to the costs of the materials you is cutting and the labour involved in getting them to the sink-cut-out stage is well above and beyond the risks a feller assumes when he cuts a sink opening with a skill saw
So to my mind the prudent craftsman opts in deference to the principles of risk managment, and tends towards the workmanship of certainty, vs the workmanship of risk.
It's one thing when you have to re-make yer own countertop and absorb it as a lesson learned , it's quite another thing to have to pay out of yer own pocket when you f*ck-up a client's countertop.
Just as an aside, if Ronnie has been using an underpowered, sloppy low-end jig saw (not an uncommon mistake), the lack of perforance and "cutitational" ability of some of the low end stuff might just have driven him to the "skill saw: option. I can see it.
Botttom line Ron is substantial good quality Jig-saw (sabre-saw) with a fine (metal cutting) blade, Don't force it , not the router
Just my thoughts,
Eric in Cowtown
Fine sermon!
Heheheheheh
Dave
Hey there Cowtown , a couple of questions . First I would like to know what kind of Jig saw you use and a little more about the blades . I agree about the jig saw but I sure don't get it done that fast after layout . One it gets slow fast when I have to cut through top and buildup . Two what is your method for cutting along the backsplash when it is tight . Many times it is a tight fit and saw doesn't quite fit with attached splash . Metal blades ? I usually use downcuts for laminate . My system works but it is slow and not as clean as I would like . Do you cut from top or bottom of top ?
I use a jigsaw with bi-metal blades and cut from the bottom so the backsplash does not get in the way. Sounds like the Bosch is the way to go. My saw is a little like me, slow, but eventually gets there.....keedman
The jig saw that generally gets used is a Makita and I'm always cutting from the top.
The blades are the typical up-cutting metal cutting blades. Makita #1's if I recall correctly. And if you force them, they will break- to be sure. Take one of yer sink cut outs and try it. Almost zero chip out.
I do have a Dewalt as well, and a fella sold me some downcut blades when they were out of makita blades (they are seemingly becoming less available as the bayonet mount blades become more common). I didn't really care for them, but I didn't try them on several jobs, just one.
As for cutting through the build up, for the most part, I'm cutting my own CT to fit my own sink units, My front build up is only 3" deep and the back build up is 1", set back from the edge by 1/2". so although I used to use wider material and ya, then it slows down. Or sometimes the client selects a larger sink, and then it can occur, and again, it slows down.
And sometimes some of the wierder sinks don't have much margin for error when cutting, so even with a standard stainless sink, I still cringe when I see top chip out.
As for being close to the backsplash, I don't recall encountering this situation, but if I did, I guess I would cut as much as possible from the top and just pull the CT out from the wall and cut it from below.
Laid-up Ctops with a tile backsplash are the norm in Calgary, I ain't installed but one post-form ctop in 9 years here, whereas in Manitoba post-form was substantially the most common in my residential experience.
You know, getting back to the original thread, if there ain't space for a jig saw, I wouldn't think a router would be any smaller base-wise.
I'm eatin my originally posted words though, because there are places where the router template is gonna be required, though, and I totally forgot about it until a client whose kitchen reno got put on hold last spring just called again. I guess they wanna get started again
They want an undermount sink in a laid-up top, and although I've never done it, the concept is that you cut an oversized hole in your substrate, fill it with a colour matched expoxy, and level it, and then yer into using a router template to cut yer final hole after the laminate has been installed. I think one of the Taunton pubs did an article on a similar methodology about a year ago.
That job is gonna be different and fun.
Eric
Well thank God I don't have to do it as much as I used too.
I ran into the cut too close to the back splash far too often---- I hate it when people order sinks that just barely fit into the cabinet.
I have a bosch goes through just about every thing , but when I get to the back cut then I would just whip out my sawzall with a 10" blade.
It sounds like the options are limited . It 's the post form tops that are a problem . I have a Makita that should do the job but maybe a Bosch would be better . The down cut bladed I use are from Menard's and kind of flimsy . I think I will look for a better blade to do the job . As far as the back splash goes I am thinking cut from the bottom with a reg. blade is my next option . Thanks guys .
Just as an aside, if Ronnie has been using an underpowered, sloppy low-end jig saw (not an uncommon mistake), the lack of perforance and "Just as an aside, the lack of perforance and "cutitational" ability of some of the low end stuff might just have driven him to the "skill saw: option. I can see it.
I had one of those saws, thought it was what they all was til I got a Bosch.
cutitational ability, I like that phrase.
Joe H
Thanks for the advice (or sermon! LOL).
It looks like I didn't give enough background. I own the top of the line Bosch jigsaw and am not doing one-offs but rather several a week in a shop. I notice the ones we used to receive from the two large ctop makers in the area all were routed. Plus sometimes they just cut out the corners - I guess to keep the top stabler vs. having a big hole. That's why I asked.
I really agree you want to be low-dust at a customer site but that's not my typical situation. And while the Bosch is fast, I'd like to know how to do the template method to see the pros/cons.
Thanks for all the feedback.
Ron, you're better off buying a good jig saw, like the Bosch, and some down-cut blades. If you were going to do many sinks with the same cutout, a templaye might make sense. But for just one cut, follow the pencil line with the jig saw.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt