run it through the GC or you’re gone
alrightythen
| Posted in General Discussion on
GC says, any sub who is approached by anyone ( IE neighbours) looking for a trade, must put it through him, or they are off the job.
never heard of this before – have you?
Replies
Personally, I bring my subs on site. If they score another job off of mine IMO its theirs.
I have a good relationship with my guys though. I stick with them and when I have one of my own jobs going (one of my rentals) the take care of me.
My subs keep me afloat. They do great work and stand behind it. I pay them (ALWAYS) on time and everyone is happy.
We just finished a rather large job for a client. After finishing the kitchen they decided they wanted a tile backsplash.
I gave the client the tile guys number. Yes I lost a little but i'll get it back on the next job, plus I have a very happy client.
I'm not in the business of charity, but sometimes its just as well to step back.
Sounds like you belong to a pimp.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
lol
Figures you'd come up with something like that :)
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Edited 9/23/2007 3:38 pm by alrightythen
So let's say that someone shows up on the job site. Says "I'm looking for the electrician". The electrician comes over and the visitor says, "Hi I'm Joe Public, I'm looking for an electrician to do some work for me and my friend Bill said you were good and you were working here, so I thought I'd see if I could find you."
So is the electrician now fired? Does he have to stand there with a dumb look on his face, realizing that he just lost his job for that GC?
A general contractor should have absolutely NO CONTROL over who his subs work for and when. That's why they're subs and not employees. The only thing he should say about someone approaching a sub on the jobsite is that the sub should arrange for other jobs on his own time. But even that is iffy - it's reasonable to expect subs to show up to the job and do a good day's work and pay them for their time. Anything beyond that is too much control.
yeah it doesn't make any sense to me. he doesn't want you stand there with a dumb look on your face, he wants you to tell them to talk to him.
I never heard of such a thing and was wondering if anyone ever has. says "if you're you're gonna take that little extra side job then make sure it's worth it."
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Edited 9/23/2007 4:02 pm by alrightythen
With that kind of mandate, I don't think the GC has good intentions. If I were a sub, I'd be afraid that the GC would either, a) want to take a cut of that second job, or b) even worse, give the job to a different sub or his own crew, and I'd never see it.
I think it's crystal clear - don't interrupt the sub ON THE JOB SITE. Anything else is fair game. If the GC wants control over the sub's activity, he needs to hire the sub as an employee.
"If I were a sub, I'd be afraid that the GC would either, a) want to take a cut of that second job,"
well yeah that's what it all boils down to. he wants any jobs to go through him so he can charge the mark up. View Image View Image
"well yeah that's what it all boils down to. he wants any jobs to go through him so he can charge the mark up."That reminds me of just one more...You could say, "Tell ya what, you give me 10% of this job, and I'll give you 10% of any job I get here."Then laugh in his face.SamT
lol - Now there's one I actually might use View Image View Image
Guys like Tool freak have it right. Of course it may not be economicaly feasable to tell the GC to take a hike. But you have to be a man and stand your ground. He's the baby here treat him like one. Your running a business. He's trying to pimp. They got laws against pimpin.
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"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
as per right now I'm not really affected. no ones asked me to do any side job so at this point in time I could care less. however I would care if something came up that I was interested in. It doesn't make sense to me. View Image View Image
Get one thing straight. Your the sole proprieter. You don't do side jobs. You do jobs. If you were an employee of yours or someone else then you would be doing side jobs.
Don't let the man trick you into thinking like that.
.
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MG1ZfFiZ8
let me rephrase that...... " another job"
you're right I used to do side jobs when I worked for someone else and did side jobs for friends on the weekends. View Image View Image
Yea, what gunner says!
But if someone did approach you maybe just to keep peace on the planet couldnt you just tell them that you'd rather talk about the proposed work in the evenings or weekends, gotta keep the work moving on this job right now.
Doug
truth be told I probably wouldn't be interested. the job I'm on is farther than I really like to travel anyway, and I have no shortage of work right now.
the subject came up, and I was wondering about it. I know I don't operate that way when I'm contracting my own jobs.
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I can see this from both sides since I am now a GC and in the past was a sub.
The GC feels that this is his job and any other work that comes from it belongs to him since the sub would not be getting an offer if he wasnt working on the GCs job. The GC does have the right to hire or fire anyone he wants to on his job. If he lays this rule down at the start and the subs agree then if they dont follow it they deserve to get fired.
on the other hand the sub is a sub and not an employee. The gc has no control over what work the sub does other than what he does on his job. If the sub doesnt like this arrangement then they dont have to work for this GC. Just my opinion.
The question is, was this in restraint in the original contract (or possibly RFP)?If not, it constitutes a change in the contract, which cannot be unilaterally enforced.So I would tell the GC to show me the clause in the existing contract.
I've seen such arraingments in the past. all depends on the agreement between the GC and the sub. some subs depend solely on a certain GC to keep him working and that can be for various reasons. if you dont like it dont work for that guy
in the case of a sub who cannot make it on his own because he is not dependable or he's a drunk, druggie or otherwise, who could blame the GC for enforcing such an agreement? any deal that goes south is going to be a reflection on the GC
I've seen employees try to score some moonlight work from neighbors behind the bosses back. almost the same thing and grounds for dismissal
Laugh in his face, and tell him he'd still have to pay you for the job.
Ask if he has his lawyer on speed dial.
Ask if he knows what "RICO Act" means. (Not sure of that one, but I think it fits.)
Tell him your Uncle Sam is bigger than his uncle Vinnie.
Ask him if he can spell "Restraint of Trade."
SamT
lol...you got any more Sam? View Image View Image
Sorry. That's against company policy.Ok, but I can only give you a ballpark right now. I'll have to run it by our Sales Dept to give you the exact weekly cost.Have you had your eyes checked recently. I think your crew is working over there -->.Call my office and run that by Helen. Helen Waite.SamT
Edited 9/23/2007 5:07 pm by SamT
Never heard of that, but were I the sub and the GC got the job, I'd damn well demand a sales commission AND the work.
You have your name and number on your truck? Anyone approaches, tell them sure, just call the office ....
Now, even if the cell phone in your pocket rings two minutes later, you're off the hook. It would be unreasonable, even illegal, for the GC to object to your running your business. You are an INDEPENDENT contractor. He feels different, let him look for an employee, and pull his own license.
Current homeowner, absolutely, no side work.
As far as neighbors, that's crazy. If the neighbor drove by and got your number off your truck and called you or called you from an add in the yellow pages, what's the difference? I think you should keep your priorities straight and not neglect the GCs work in lieu of the neighbors.
Also, say your doing work in a neighborhood for two different GCs, neighbor sees you around a lot and calls, (got number off your truck) who's to say he saw you working for ImAJerk Construction or ImFair Construction?
IF the scope of the resulting work was similar to the GC's main business it would be reasonable to refer the neighbor back to the GC. (Which GC I think would be obvious, LOL.) If the work is for a sparky to move a switch, or a carpenter to replace a door I don't see why the GC would want to mess with it.
That's a bit overbearing. Besides, why would any smart consumer hire a GC to have some mechanical work, or painting done?
Our company: current project anything extra requested goes through us.
[email protected]
In addition to the other comments, the GC is jeopardizing his status as using independent contractors and may well become obligated for all sorts of nasty back taxes, fines, workmans comp charges, etc.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
Haven't heard of that before - but I hate it when my subs start bidding extras to my client. Then if there's a problem the client runs to me to fix it. Or when I send a sub to look at a job, and they bid it to the H.O. I get real upset when a sub does that, because they should know better. I've dropped a few sub's because of that.
But the neighbors? Sounds like the guy's on a power trip.
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
The expectation is that I should keep our subs from doing additionals for our client, cutting out our markup. That's pretty fair, and if our subs actually want to work for us, they'll adhere to that. With one significant exception, that is. When it comes to electrical, people always want extras, and sometimes they get significant. I'm really not interested in getting calls after after a bathroom remodel in which our electrician upgraded the service as as "additional." I have enough service issues as it is.It seems like clients really get carried away on electrical. They get a quote, figure it seems reasonable, and then double it by asking my sparky to do this or that "while he's at it." It doesn't matter that I explain it'll cost them in the end. And if I tell them I should get them a proper quote first, they just ask him directly anyway. :-)
Interesting. I recently hired on as a super with a new to me company. Their electrical sub made the comment last Friday that he is used to dealing directly with the owner and making whatever changes the owner wanted without discussing it with the super before talking to the owner. I politely suggested that if he did that on a job I was running he would be looking for work somewhere else if I had any say in things. All too often the sub has no clue as to what or how his changes may affect other trades, schedule , bid amount or even relationships with the owner. I want all sub work run through me. I have no problem accompanying the sub and owner when they discuss the changes, but the sub doesn't get to make independent decisions about his work on the project unless he is subbing directly to the owner. Last time I had to deal with this the electrician suggested to the owner they could put recess cans into a ceiling, owner loved the concept, only problem was the area the owner wanted them put into contained an air return for the HVAC. It caused a serious problem with the owner who was so convinced of the merit of the recessed cans he wanted to have the HVAC moved at our expense."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Yeah. . . if the electrical work they want done was actually connected to our contract, I really wouldn't be happy.
But oftentimes the additional work is in another part of the house, is of lower priority, and has to happen at a later date. I got caught up in a completely irrelevant issue when the electrician was to run power to someone's shed, but wanted to wait until spring to do it. We finished our job in February, and months later I was stuck trying to get our electrician out there, while he was way too busy with other, more important exterior jobs.
I'll pass, thanks!
yeah...that sounds outta whack too View Image View Image
I tried to email you but could not get a response.
Send me a note so I can ask you a different kind of question.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
I sent you my current email View Image View Image
Leon touched on this in post #12- tell the gc your sales commission for bringing in any new work will be exactly equal to any markup he expects to charge on that work. then ask him if he still wants to oversee your future jobs for free or if he'd rather keep his grubby fingers the #*&@ out of your business?m
GC can only throw a sub off the site for a specific reason that violates the wording of the subs "CONTRACT". He can limit walk-ins to the site. Sounds to me if he did that he could be in serious legal voodoo.
If work is done on a site where the building permit is in my
name, all work goes through me. If Joe neighbor shows up
looking for an electrician, the elcetrician is on his own. What is
done else where is no one's business as long as it doesn't
effect the original job.
I live in a "teardown and rebuild neighborhood". About two years ago when I started thinking about doing our house, I spent a year writing down names from truck signs on trucks parked at various houses being rebuilt.
I'm now using about half of these contacts on my house.
Runnerguy
apparently-most of you folks consider me a pimp.
here is my arrangement.
i am a roofing contractor--it is MY sign in the yard. I work on virtually every project with my own hands---but i frequently subcontract out portions of the project to a couple of other roofing contractors--reserving certain parts of large projects for my own hands-any carpentry, chimney flashing, skylights, sheet metal, spouting, rubber roofs, etc.
any permits are in my name------and again-it is my sign in the yard. typically-a sub on the job has MY sign on his truck,trucks as well.
SOOOOOOOOO--if a neighbor comes over from next door, wanting a price for a roof---and I happen to be away from the job, at the lumber yard or something-----the sub on the job had better give the neighbor MY card-or tell him Stephen will be over when he gets back from the lumberyard etc.
A job arising from MY job-is my job--------and the sub on the job will of course be part of that project as well.
but if he spikes that job with the neighbor without running it through me---our working relationship is over. he will finish the present job--and that will be that- i won't call him in the future.
Harsh?,---pimp??????-------call me whatever-but that's the deal up front.
I hav never had to discontinue a relationship with a sub over this-----as mentioned they know the system we work with going into our relationship. relationship with #1 sub runs 10-11 years, and relationship with #2 sub runs 3 years at present
I have dismissed an employee at the end of his first day over something similar however--they KNOW the system going into their first day--and the consequences.
Frankly- i would be amazed if a sub ever spiked a job with a neighbor.-simple math--how many jobs are you ever going to get from that neighbor---vs. how many jobs have you got from me-and expect to get in the future--simply wouldn't be worth it logically.
Best wishes, all--Stephen
That's a whole different story. You are only using direct competitors as subs.Suppose you needed an electrician on a job and a neighbor asked for some electrical work.What are you going to do, you can't pull an electrical permit, the sub will have to. Are you still going to insist that he cut you in for a chunk of his job?SamT
good point Sam.
say i have an electrician on a job to pull an electric meter so we can side behind it????
Neighbor asks ME about an electical project?????
I hook the neighbor and the electrician up--and I am confident the electrican OFFERS to slip me a few $$$ and equally confident that I graciously decline" no,no wouldn't dream of it-happy to help you both out"
but see--it's the token offer that's important-along with me declining the $$$---it's respect in 2 directions
however--- what if it's a painter-- perhaps I am subbing out pre-painting some fascia before we hang it. neighbor approaches with some painting he wants done?
Painter and I need to have a little chat. Probably I don't want to be involved--but we need to chat.
that pimp word-has me a little quizzical.-seems a fine distinction for the GC.
Lets see----it's fine for the sub at 224 brown street----but suddenly at 228 brown street the very same GC is a pimp??? I don't get that at all----especially since the sub was never gonna be at 228 brown street without the GC bringing him to 224 brown street.
Best wishes,
stephen
Your scenario is in my view quite a bit different. You have guys do specific work that you otherwise would do. I don't think you're a "pimp" a pimp can't turn the "trick" so to speak.
Most GC's don't do the "work" they line up the guys and keep the show running which is a different kind of work in itself. View Image View Image
"Can't we all just get along."I find it amusing how protective some people are of "their turf." I worked for one GC like the one you mentioned. The guy was a control freak. I have not missed him at all.I do work for several GC's as a trim carp and we view the relationship as symbiotic...we both get work for each other. They are glad if I take "side work" since these are typically little projects they don't want to mess with.Competitive turf battles seem petty to me, the more work I give away, the busier I get--it seems.I even hire the guy I replaced as trim carp for a builder. We work together fairly often on jobs that require two people. I have no trade secrets and share how I do things with this guy to help him improve his game.
"I live in a "teardown and rebuild neighborhood". About two years ago when I started thinking about doing our house, I spent a year writing down names from truck signs on trucks parked at various houses being rebuilt.
I'm now using about half of these contacts on my house."
half the guys I used on my house I got the same way. I was building in a new subdivsion. View Image View Image
Don't know how it is there, but GC's here are not allowed to bid on projects involving only one sub-trade, unless its carpentry.
BTW, I like your moniker - are you a Jim Carey fan?
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
"this house is cLeaar"
"LiiiiKe a Glllove"
"AAALrIghTythen"
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"The #### stain on your pants signifies that you are a single-shake man, far too busy for the follow-up jiggle".
edited to add: "I SAID laces OUT!"
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Edited 9/25/2007 9:26 pm by Huck
Ya know, saw that movie so many times when it 1st came out...then hadn't seen it in years...was on TV not long ago and had forgotton how flippin funny it was!
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