I have an older toilet that has been running on. I pulled the tank and replaced the flapper assembly (Douglas valve). Despite seating the valve carefully, it leaks around the gasket. I pulled the tank and positioned it on 2 x 4s above my basement sink, and the leak is quite obviously coming from around the valve seat gasket.
I bought the replacement parts at a plumbing supply house, and they seem to be reasonable quality. The inside of the tank is unglazed porcelain- fairly rough, which might be part of the problem. The toilet is ~15-20 years old.
Would plumbers putty help? A different valve assemby? A chiboard washer between the mounting nut and the underside of the tank?
Other suggestions…thanks,
Glaucon
If you don’t think too good, then don’t think too much…
Replies
Tying it's shoelaces together will stop errant running for shure.
Ok, seriously. Get a hunk of rubber roof scrap or innertube rubber...make ya a donut gasket. Should do ya just fine.
Went by here a few minutes ago....The heck, you say?
I've seen Fluidmaster valves highly recommended by people here at Breaktime.
I just installed a new Elger with the same problem. I think I'm going to use plumber's putty and make my own gasket, to see if that'll fix it.
BruceM
I'm confused as to where the leak is coming from. Two options follow.
Between tank and flapper assembly mounting? - Rubber gasket and/or plumber's putty.
Between the valve seat and the flapper valve? Go with the Fluidmaster - sticks down on top of the existing seat. Don't know exactly what the putty-like adhesive they supply is - just know it fills any small gaps and sticks like crazy. Old seat needs to be dry for it to work right - hair dryer.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
The leak seems to be arising from between the tank and the flapper assembly (Douglas valve). When I mount the tank on 2x4s above my basement sink, even a 1/4" of water in the tank leaks (this is below the level of the flapper itself). I don't think that the gasket (which is tapered) is making a good seal against the rough porcelain of the tank. Would I be better off removing the gasket and mounting the flapper assembly in plumber's putty alone? Or should I mount the gasket as per usual and use putty on the underside (outside)of the thank?
Thanks,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Gasket might be too rigid to conform to the roughness of the china -----Plumbers puty is an interesting idea I have never tried that.
But what I have done is use a thick teflon based pipe dope like Hercules Mega lock & Rectoseal #100 virgin both are quite thick & can fill in the small imperfections of the two materials facing each other.
Where can I get Mega Lock or Rectoseal? Any tricks to using them?
Thanks,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Megalock is made by Hercules
I think HD carries them both Don't use Recterseal #5 it dries hard runs like crazy when it's wet & forget about getting it out of your clothes
any plumbing supply house will have Megalock & rectorseal #100 virgin
Brush it on both surfaces & assemble----- one note though pipe dope will not fill large gaps
You brought up putty which will work although I have never tried it Knowing putty like I do it's pretty fail safe stuff when using for a non pressure sealing application.
I assume the nut holding the assembly and gasket is snugged up well and it still leaks.
If this is the case then I think plumbill has it right - the gasket is too hard/stiff to conform to the porcelain.
I would consider 3 possible courses of action:
1) pull assembly from tank, add a generous donut of plumber's putty to the sealing area of the tank, replace assembly with gasket, tighten and test.
2) same as #1 except, remove the gasket entirely, apply donut of plumber's putty to the mounting flange of the assembly, tighten and test. Note: the nut needs to be tightened carefully and not too tight as you have lost the cushioning effect of the gasket.
3) Most iffy, remove assembly, attempt to get a softer tapered gasket from a supply house, install using technique in #1.
In any event, if plumber's putty is not oozing out all around the joint in significant quantities - you have not used enough. Just peel off the excess after tightening and throw it back in the can for use again on another project.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Thanks. This may be a dumb question, but is there a reason NOT to just use siicon caulk instead of a gasket/plumbers's putty? Seems like it would fill the crevices fairly well, and once set up, would be near to immortal.
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Sorry, I'm so late on reply.
Plumbers putty will fill relatively large gaps, has no curing time ( ready for testing as soon as the nut is tightened), and remains easily removable for many years.
Silicone will probably seal the job just as well as putty, but needs to cure before being wet and can be a b**** to remove in the future.
Perhaps due to personal insecurity, plus my wife and customers want their toilet functional NOW, I like materials which can be tested immediately.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
.
Good points from all.
I chose to mount the assembly using silicon caulk. The downside is that future replacement will be difficult (but doable). The upside is that once cured, the stuff is essentially immortal, even in a wet environment, and that future replacement would likely involve the flapper, but not the entire valve seat.
I set up the job yesterday, and mounted the tank above my basement sink on 2x4s. After the caulk cured, I filled the tank with water and placed a dry newspaper underneath. This AM (12 hrs later)- the newspaper is still dry.
This raises an interesting point: building codes have favored the replacement of older WCs with 1.6 gallon units to conserve water. I would hazard that much more water is wasted around the flapper or Douglas valve assembly (which generally trickles into the bowl, and not on the floor, particularly if the sump gasket is sound) than by the water used in flushing itself. If the Douglas valve assembly was designed in two pieces- a mounting seat that was caulked in place in the tank, and a second piece consisting of the overflow valve and flapper/valve seat that threaded into the first, you'd have a better design and less water usage.
Thanks for all the good suggestions,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
They have a waterproof sealent epoxy you first knead together, then apply around the area even under water. Been there ,done that. Another toilet tank was dripping condensation due to 'porosity' Solved that one with roofing cement.
Steinmetz.
I just scanned through the answers, so I'll apologize in advance if I missed this advice from someone else. There're two paths for water to get from the tank to the bowl during a flush, and the second path is the tall tube that reaches above the water-line in the tank (it's purpose is to fill the bowl to the correct level after the flush by diverting a small amount of the refill down that tube.
In any case, did you check the base and seal of that tube ?
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
That tall tube is (I think) the overflow tube- part of the flapper assembly (Douglas valve). The bottom of it is a 2.5" (~6.3 cm) diameter threaded fitting that seats in an opening in the bottom of the porcelain tank. I am pretty sure the leak is around this fitting, between it and the tank itself. There is a tapered rubber gasket that seats against the procelain, I think the leak is between the gasket and the procelain. The porcelain is fairly rough and there is a discernible ridge that runs along the aperture- to me, this is not the optimal, smooth, even surface that you'd like a gasket to seat against.
A number of different fixes have been mentioned- using plumbers putty between the gasket and the porcelain, pipe dope, etc. I think silicon caulk would work as well- although you would have difficult replacing the assembly in the future when (it's when, not if) it fails.
If I use plumbers putty, what is the longevity of a seal between the putty and the gasket in a wet, non-pressurized application? If it is good, I 'd go with the putty, otherwise I'll do the silicon caulk or pipe dope.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
We had a tank that we thought had a similar problem; I painted around the rough opening with porcelin paint, then sanded it smooth. The problem went away; my plumber friends tell me that I probably did more good with the new rubber ring and the plumber's grease than I with the paint - I guess I'll never know..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I did emery the surface- I'll do a test with putty and a gasket and see how things go...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Take a dab of sylcone caulk smear it around the the hole were the valve sits get it a smoth as you can, let it dry then instal your valve. The silcone will give you a smoth surface to seet too.