I am doing some work on a very old pickup which involves removing some very rusted nuts from equally rusted bolts. Fairly large…using 17mm socket. So far, one came loose and another snapped. I know I can heat the nuts with a torch, but this makes me nervous. Has anyone had any luck with any rust dissolving products? wd40 won’t make a dent on this stuff.
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Heat the nuts, then touch the stud with an ice cube.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
CRC left on overnight sometimes does the trick, some people swear by Coca Cola. I've heated the nuts enough to dry them out, then sprayed with penetrating oil and let them sit for a couple hours. BTW, WD-40 isn't really a penetrating oil, WD stands for water displacement. Last resort is a "nut splitter", at least, you can preserve the bolt.
Ray, what's crc? Unfortunately not enough room to use a nutspitter.
http://www.crcindustries.com/auto/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=05330&S=N
coca cola does not work according to mythbusters
There's enough youth in this world, how 'bout a fountain of SMART??!!
PB Blaster , in a spray can like wd-40, but a zillion times better.
Heat, spray..crank away.
Not too hot obviously..or things go poof or boom. Boom , bad. Poof, not so much.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?
Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Edited 4/5/2008 4:26 pm ET by Sphere
Thanks. Never heard of it. Should I try an auto parts place like Autozone?
+1 for PB Blaster, great stuff!
PB Blaster , in a spray can like wd-40, but a zillion times better.
I tried PB Blaster for the first time recently, but it didn't seem to do much. Is there a "trick" to using it?
I need to de-corrode badly rusted and corroded roller chain. I'd like to find something cheap enough that I can get a few gallons and submerge the chains in it for a while. Thinking kerosene might work, any other suggestions?
For chain like that, kero and used motor oil..50/50 mix. Soak as long as you can then commence wiggling ( the chain, that is).Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
My son swears by PB Blaster, available at most auto partts stores. I use Kroil which sort of smells but does a great job of penetration and rust removal.
http://blasterchemical.com/display.cfm?p=50003&pid=4
http://www.kanolabs.com/google/
Thanks. I'm off to Autozone.
yeah Kroil !!
I use that on my hand tools and it cleans out TOO much gunk sometimes.
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.. . . . . . . .
I bought a Bosch finecut with 4 used blades that were pretty rusted, Kroil and some green scotchbrite cleaned them right up.
I sprayed my Kleins down yesterday, while waiting for a wire pull to start, and the things got more wobble than my knees again.
.
.. . . . . . . .
I assume you are using an impact wrench? - a much better way to break threads loose than anything else - badly stuck stuff I will put the impact on 'tighten' for a few blows and then reverse - doesn't hurt, might help -
why are you scared to heat? - really, if they are stuck to the twist-off point, it's unlikely lube will gain you much - can you just go ahead and twist them off and replace them? -
David, no impact wrench, just a socket and a cheater bar. I'll try your suggestion of tightening first. I will use heat if I have to. I guess it makes me nervous because of gas...probably because I don't have much experience using it for anything other than sweating pipes.
Spray with the blaster.Rock that cheater bar back and forth.Tighten, loosen, tighten, loosen, tighten, loosen.....Take it off, and spray with the blaster again.Rock the cheater bar again.Put plenty of pressure on the cheater bar, both directions. Don't just flip it back and forth.It takes a lot of patience and persistance, but it usually works.
Life doesn't often leave a very easy trail to follow.
thanks
six point socket of the correct size makes a big difference. I agree with all other post.
Heat the heck out of the bolt, hammer it, heat it... Spray it once its cools down and let it sit for a while..Use a strong rust penetrating oil, not wd-40... Impact would be ideal, but you can break any rusted nut with enough heat, penetrating oil, and hammering it and if you still cant apply enough torque use a pipe over the breaker bar to increase torque.
A old mechanic taught mr 6 point sockets only or you will strip the bolt right away, NO 12 points, thats why the impack ones are 6 points, I soak the bolts for a day or 2 with 3in one oil or breakloose spray or what Napa sells.
I work as an auto body man so I know for your talking about. I always use Wurth Rost off, spray it on and let it penetrate for a while, if you have the time let it soak over night. If I have access for an Impact gun I use it, work smarter not harder. Snapped off nuts and bolts are dangerous, ever heard the term "knucklebuster". When my 1000 ftlbs Impact gun (at least Ingersoll Rand claims it has that much) doesn't take it off its time for the torch. I don't ever bother with heating an ice cubes, get the nut nicely red hot and take it off with the impact gun.
Be careful not to set the truck on fire!
Martin
The ice cube trick was told to me about saving the studs on a rusted manifold. I've never done it, never needed it. You get the stuff red hot, it usually comes off like butter. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
TommH
myhomereno is right.
Soak for as long as you can with good penetrating oil (all of them are good, everyone has their favorites). At least overnite and 2 days is just fine.
Get a good acetelyne torch and get the nut cherry red. As long as you dont have a puddle of gas sitting there, just pay attention to where you are pointing the torch. (away from flamables)
Once red, nut will spin off 99% of the time with hand tools or impact.
Will a Mapp torch work?
Mapp torch will work fine if you do't have an oxyacte. I've even used a propane plumbers torch. It'll work fine on smaller bolts or where there isn't something acting as a big heat sink.
Also ditto on PB and loosen tighten. But, if it feels like its going to break and you need to keep it whole, STOP, and get the torch. I've learned the hard way from breaking to much stuff. Muscle isn't the answer.
Better than propane. I dont think you can get steel cherry red with a mapp torch but if you soak it real well with pen oil for 24-48 hours, then heat up, they usually go. In a pinch, i have used propane. If it starts turning, you can then tighten back up and turn a little again, soak with pen oil while turning and once you get some movement the pen oil will work its way into the threads and things will start to go.
Best not to have the torch running when you spray pen oil it is somewhat errrrrrrrrrr I guess you might say flamable. (or a little explosive) As soon as the torch is away from the bolt, I will spray again but not with the torch on the bolt as it is just a flamethrower at that point in time.
Kerosene and Essential Lube, mixed 50/50 in a spray bottle. Cheap and works.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I used to do a lot of marine work and have never seen a better product than Zep 45 for loosening salt/rust fused nuts and bolts. Once you try this stuff, if you can find it, you will never buy another can of WD-40 again. Spray on some Zep 45, wait about 15-20 minutes, tug on the nut just bit to open up a thread with a socket and cheater bar, then another squirt of zep. I've never had it not work.
I had forgotten about that, we used it when I ran an Aircraft Repair Station several lives ago. Good/great stuff.
When other attempts fail.........
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_34573_34573
PB Blaster, Kroll, and Rost Off are all good, but...hands down the best I've used is GM Heat Valve Lubricant and Rust Penetrant.
Either way if a torch is out due to fire risk, I'll second(or third, fourth): Penetrant, soak, more penetrant, impact gun-tight, loose, tight, loose, etc. And mix in afew more shots of lube in the process.
deadman1 hit it on the head! You can't beat GM's Heat Valve Lubricant and Rust Penetrant. Get it at any GM dealership parts department. Heat the frozen fastener and cool it off with the penetrant - keep it wet for quick coffee break and it should be loose.
Another favorite of mine is Auto Solution's Trust It aerosol. It is great. I am trying to find a local retailer for it. I got a can of it at a flea market near the Ohio-Pennsylvania border and it not only is a good penetrant it is a great lubricant too.
http://www.autosolutionsproducts.com/Products/Aerosols
Aero-Kroil and PB Blaster also are on my most-favoured list.
I have 2 -12 ton hyd.jacks that are rusted up..the lil pumper is locked up..PB didn't phase them..would that stuff work ya think?
Can't really do the back and forth motion too well what with it being the handle socket and all.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
I'd give it a shot, or a squirt. I've used ZEP 45 to undo frozen exhaust system nuts, head bolts, and a few dozen other salt-water related corrosion issues. You've got little to lose other than a couple of jacks that sound like they might currently make good anchors anyway. Other's have mentioned some other products that I haven't heard of that may be just as good.
Kroil and PB Blaster are good. However, depending on the bolt (like if it's got a nut on the back side and it's not threaded into a casting or something like that) it's sometimes better if the darn thing just snaps off right away instead of having to fight it...then, just buy a new bolt.
By the way - what kind of very old truck are you working on that has metric bolts?
Edited 4/5/2008 10:23 pm by Stuart
85 nissan kingcab
Believe it or not, Dekswood deck cleaner.
i used to have a small dump truck with a Ford 390, The Exhaust pipes were always leaking but the nuts were rusted on, My old mechanic would soak the nuts for a week or 2, I always had 2 trucks so i was alright there, i watched him heat the nut one time He said the trick is heat the nut but try and keep the bolt cold
TommH
17 mm? old ? I take it we aren't speaking about an american vehicle or a British one.. then? Don't use metric tools on American sized bolts and nuts..
Propane tourch isn't going to heat the bolts up enough to be much use. you need acetiline tourch. get the nuts cherry red and then making sure you are squarely on with a six point socket rock the nut back and forth..
I'm gonna have to contradict French. A mapp gass plumbers torch will take any bold/nut out. I just finished upgrading a exaust system on my friends turbo charged
car and that torch was the only reason the job got done. Took every thing from bolts in the cat out to the O2 sensor in the O2 housing it takes like 10 minutes if its a big
peice but it def works, Between the torch and an impact we got bolts out that we could get out with a 2' pipe. I will however agree withe the 6 pt socket its the only way to go... Don't even think of using a 12 pt.
Ok, it's not Grapes of Wrath old, but it's got 20plus years of rust. Almost old enough to get an "antique" plate here in Ct. I bought it for $1000 12 years ago and I have an odd attachment to it. Hauled lots of topsoil, mulch, etc.
See above, it's a 1985 Nissan Kingcab.
Many years ago I used to restore old British sports cars and bought Liquid Wrench by the case. I would soak the rusty parts with Liquid Wrench, let it soak a while, tap (tap, not beat, some of these parts were very hard to find) on the bolt to help the stuff work its way into the threads, and it was very seldom that I could not get it apart without damaging anything. Also, I used a wire brush mounted on a grinder to clean up many, many bolts.
You aren't my old Denver buddy are you (fill in your profile)? Who at one time had 4 Hillmans and an Alpine? Kept buying Hillmans in vain attempt to get a decent tranny. Never did find a Tiger he wanted to pay for by the time I left Denver.
While I was driving FIATs. Loaned me one of the Hillmans one summer while I searched for a good Lancia. Eventually it dawned on me there was no such thing. Bought an Alfa. Wonderful machine.
I've tried about every concoction suggested here, go back to the gas wrench for the large stuff. Sometimes takes cherry red and an 8' cheater with me jumping on the end. 1/2" drive doesn't hold up.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
And dont forget to put never sieze on the bolt when you put it back together, I learned that after having a boat
I am afraid there are several of us out there nutty enough to fool with old British cars. I live in Virginia - Blacksburg (home of Virginia Tech). My mechanic days were back in the early 70's. I don't do much with old cars anymore, but I still have a soft spot in my heart for them. After college, several jobs, a wife and a couple of kids the cars got pushed aside. Now I spend my free time working on houses.
Back when I was in college, and co-oping at Wright-Patt, I worked with a guy who had a TR2 he was rebuilding. He finally, after several years, got it in good enough shape to put the wheels on and take it down off the blocks. He had two young daughters who were suddenly afraid to go out in the garage -- they'd never in their entire lives seen the car with its wheels on and it was simply too strange to be in their comfort zone.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
I had a friend while I was in college that inherited a Triumph TR-3 from an uncle that died. The car was in fairly good shape but it had been sitting for a year or so. Due to the fact it sat so long and it's proud British heritage, none of the electrics worked very well and there were leaks everywhere. My friend and I spent many enjoyable hours (i.e., lots of pizza and beer!) getting the car roadworthy and he enjoyed it for a couple of years before he sold the car. I had a TR-4 at the time, which I also have many fond memories of. I enjoyed maintaining it and was an avid autocrosser at the time. Over a period of time, I modified many aspects of the car and became reasonably successful competing in autocrosses. It was a lot of fun and I had a great time, but I don't have much desire to do it again!
Edited 4/7/2008 10:04 am ET by la
Back in the mid 70's, I owned a Triumph GT6. It was a beautiful, temperamental, lively car and I absolutely loved it. I often wish I had never sold it. It was such a joy to drive.
Oh, did I mention it was also a piece of junk and spent as much time being repaired as it did on the road?
it's a 1985 Nissan Kingcab
diesel?
jt8
So what was that like?It was like coming THIS close to your dreams. And then watch them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don’t think much of it. You know we just don’t recognize the most significant moments of our lives while they’re happening. Back then I thought, “well, there’ll be other days.” I didn’t realize that that was the only day. --FoD
No, gas.
If the bolt has to be saved I'd grab a dremel and cutoff wheel and put a slice down one side of the nut and give it a whack with cold chisel. Even if the cold chisel isn't used, the slice will allow the nut to expand slightly when being wrenched off.
If you can get the nut a dull red with a propane torch I haven't seen one that wouldn't turn off.
For the most part I'd second the idea that a good impact is the way to go for 99% of all frozen nuts. Personally I'd skip any lube unless the impact wouldn't turn it free or you are going to reuse it.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
old truck and a 17mm? unless your on a old import truck,first get a 3/4 socket.they didn't have metric in the old days...............larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
'very old' is a lot newer than it used to be...."there's enough for everyone"
I am happy to report the successful removal of the remaining nuts. I used "Blaster" on it for 3 days and then backed them off with a 6 point socket. I worked them slowly back and forth, spraying on more oil as I proceded. The nut cleaned out the threads so that the bolts look almost new. Thanks for all your very helpful tips and suggestions.
Thanks for the update! I'm glad things worked out. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I glad to hear it worked out for you. For future purposes it helps when you clean the remaining treads that are sticking out of the nut with a wire wheel in a drill to clean them out. The same should be done before you install the old bolts if you are not replacing them.Martin
To quote the movie The Big Chill, "if you sleep late you miss a few mini-dramas". Way back he responded that it was an 85 Nissan and mentioned several more times. (;-)
a 1985,that isn't old thats just got all the bugs worked out and ready to drive, how can bolts be rusted in only 23 years,wait till he tackles a 40 ford,thats old. larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
The ONLY product I have found that works is Breakfree. It dissolves the rust and corrosion.
They have it in the gun department at Dicks and other places like that.
http://www.break-free.com/