Greetings from Northeast Ohio! Not sure if this is the correct forum for something like this so if it needs moved, mods can handle it I’m sure. My wife and I are starting our house build and to help document the process I created a website for the whole thing:
Updates and pics will be posted there and if there’s sufficient interest I’ll also add them here. The thread here will serve more for discussions about what’s happening and whether or not you guys wish to get more info on what’s happening. I also welcome feedback on things I’m doing or if you have better ideas. Thanks and hope to hear from some of you soon!
Replies
Just posted an update to the site here on kitchen design.
Interested in hearing what you have to say about the appliances.
Equally interested in hearing what you think or what your experiences are with hardwood floors in the kitchen. I prefer tile. It can look great and offer unmatched durability. The wife REALLY wants hardwood. I think it looks better than tile but I'm mostly concerned about the nicks, scratches, stains, etc.
Sav
Couple things. The stools look uncomfortable and heavy. Tile with tight joints should not interfere with moving them around. Bigger joints could make moving a pain. Keep enough room between the stools, this is a place of comfort in the kitchen.
frig doors. Side clearance of the doors so they open at least 90 deg. And if swung open more, don't bash the wall or flanking cabs.
in corners and anywhere else cab doors or their pulls might come in contact when opened, spec restrictor clips on the hinges.
did you have another thread started already? Try to keep one going on this build rather than starting new. Helps to keep the story in one spot.
thanks
Refr. doors
Calvin. Didn't read the original post so this may not apply but: Refr./Frzr door often need to open more than 90*. 90* will not always allow the crisper drawers to slide all the way out.
If Refr./Frzr installed next to wall, need to leave +/-4" space or filler trim or filler wall same debth as cabinets.(24")
oops
Yessir,
while most later models have jostled around the door shelves to allow crisper drawers to come out, you always build the fridge area around the selection. Thanks for highlighting as nothing piss's off a kitchen project than that.........
cept for the whole thing not fitting in the space provided.
every fixture, major appliance, and countertop appliance needs to meld with the layout and installation.
Way too often both homowner and designer concentrate on the wow factor.
Hope the rest of the house will be better than the kitchen - like living in a Pizza Hut restaurant, yuck!
Outside of the house across the street looks nice though.
PIZZA HUT
junkhound wrote:
Hope the rest of the house will be better than the kitchen - like living in a Pizza Hut restaurant, yuck!
Outside of the house across the street looks nice though.
Haha...I would have thought that negativity due to differing tastes was reserved for the car forums where you've got 30 year olds posting with 16 year olds.
Just posted an update. Footers are in and backfilled. Next up are basement walls!
http://www.savko.house/foundation-is-key/
Question time.
I'm gonna post another update soon showing the progression of the block work, but what I really need to get nailed down are my garage floor drains. Next week they will be stubbing in the downspout sewer drain piping and the orientation of my drains will dictate what they do.
Per my original drawing I wanted to do (2) separate trench drains running the width of the garage. Cars pulling in and out would drive over them, and they'd be located more toward the door than in the center of the garage. My builder suggested they be more toward the center, however in the third bay I wouldn't wanna be fighting the grating with jacks or roller stools. Perhaps a happy medium of not all the way centered, but atleast having 3' of concrete between the door and drain may work out best.
Anyone have any thoughts or experiences on trench drains in their garage?
Big update: http://www.savko.house/the-walls-have-risen/
All of the concrete block is complete.
Just posted an update to the build. 1st Floor Framing is complete.
Sorry for the late notice but I posted an update to the site last week showing off the rest of the majority framing on 2nd floor, here! It's been a busy week. Gonna start getting into some nitty gritty good stuff on the interior here soon. The 3D CAD model is coming along nicely. 1st Floor is fully modeled, working on finishing 2nd floor.
Hey everyone! Sorry for the 3 week break. Was incredibly busy trying to get things going that I didn't have time to post any updates. Just got everything compiled last night and have an new update here!
Lemme know what you think!
Posted an Update last night with some more sanitary progress. We are almost done with this system, which means first rough inspection soon and then more colorful piping to be added thereafter. Also, made some updates to the Product page as well. Check it out!
blocking?
Wondering why your framers ran your zip panel sheathing horizontal vs. vertical? I ask this because I didn't see any horizontal blocking at horizontal zip panel seams or metal diagonal let in bracing on your interior framing shots. How are you meeting your shear wall bracing requirments?
Apologies that I haven't gotten a solid answer for you but back when we started I was told they run it horizontal because it offered better stiffness than when run vertically.
There are 2 updates posted, one of which I just added and the other I forgot to give you guys a heads up about. First was the sanitary system and recently was the radiant tubing. Check em out!
They told you wrong.
when not using the zip panel system (and the blocking suggested by Huber) are shear wall requirements met with regular osb nailed horizontaly? yes, there are less joints, but shear wall requirements are met.
Don't be so sure it's wrong.
Prove it. I think you' could be wrong. Horizontal sheathing that is offset (ie, not stacked in the same plane) could be stronger. Where is the proof to say vertical is stronger? Vertical sheathing does have some advantages over horizontal for sure. I'm not sure strength is one of them.
well sonny you could try answering the question.
once again, your information regurgitation is impecable.
But no one is questioning/suggesting that braced and shear walls are two different things.
Can you tell by the pictures on the blog if the wall in question and the fastening schedule used, if the plans required this wall to be a shear wall? NOPE you cant.
Again the question was and still is...can shear wall requirements be met using osb nailed vertically?
since your worse than a politician, and have a supernatural ability to skirt answers you dont know the answer to (or you know the answers and those answers contradict your bias pomposity) ill answer for you. Yes.
This comparison has been going on a long time. I believe vertical is stronger when it is nailed per schedule continuously, and horizontal is stronger when nailed likewise. The problem is when horizontal sheathing is not continuously nailed at the perimeter, which would be the usual method. This can cause strange warping to occur as well as being a weak link for lateral loads, and also admits more air pressure due to the gaps between panels. But horizontal sheathing continuously nailed at the perimeter (which would require blocking) may be stronger (as much as 40% as claimed by several internet sources). I suspect the actual difference is much less than 40%.
It's a question I would like to know the real answer to. Also the sheathing type may make a difference. Three ply CDX and OSB do not respond the same to lateral loads, due to the makeup of the plies in CDX, whereas OSB panels are more homogenous and should perform the same in either direction.
The issue is orientation, not workmanship
We're not discussing improperly fastened panel edges; horizontal or vertical. That is a field installation/inspection issue regarding meeting code required fastening schedules for WSP. What we're discussing is the structural implications of orientating WSP's vertically or horizontally.
Yes, the question as to which is perferrable (from a structural perspective) has been asked for quite some time; In fact this quesition probably arose about the time most builders switched to using plywood for exterior wall sheathing from 1x lagging. Just do a search on Breaktime and you will find numerous old posts. However, the question has long been settled. There is no difference in plywood or OSB sheathing transfering lateral loads as long as it is fastened per code at all edges. For horizontally run sheathing this means having to install blocking between studs at horizontal breaks. If you don't install the blocking then there is no way you will meet this requirement. No question that installing horizontal blocking is extra material-- and extra work. The real question you should be asking yourself is this: why would you want to do that when you (in most cases) don't have to?
Again, if you don't install blocking when running WSP's horizontally, then there is no question that it is structurally inferior (in terms of its ability to transer lateral forces) to vertically installed panels. In most cases the type of wood sheathing matters very little in terms of its ability to transfer forces*. The forces involved are easily resolved within the material and thicknesses of most readily available structural sheathing materials. In fact, the IRC observes 12 different intermittent wall bracing methods involves a mulititude of wall sheathing materials. However, they are not all equal; nor treated equal in the prescriptive code. The main issue with WSP's (which is what we're discussing) is any discontinuity in the sheathing within the framed wall height (plate-to-plate) and the length of braced wall required using this method. Discontinuty can be an issue with unblocked horizontal WSP's. Many builders have failed inspection due to this fact. Just read the post archives and you will find this out.
*we're talking in-plane lateral shear forces here. For all practical purposes, plywood and OSB behave virtually the same in this capacity. I assume what you're referring to when speaking of "either direction" are in-plane laterial shear loads vs. vertical bending loads. Again, two different animals. Plywood or OSB plywood subfloors are subjected to vertical loads that are resisted by fiber strength spanning between joists or similar structural members. These kind of forces are so negliable in wall assemblies that do not come into play for wall sheathing. In other words, isotropic vs. anistorpic materiality (what you call "homogenous") is a non issue regarding my point.
One question, is it required by code to install blocking if the sheathing is horizontal? I'm referring to a common area where there is no seizmic, or high winds dictating it to be done. I've seen a lot of substandard work done that meets code. You know I'm not a builder by trade, so I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the codes. I have seen conversations on JLC where it was indicated that a 1/8" inch space was required between panels, and that's where some colorful comments were made about why the horizontal sheathing was just wrong. I don't know if it horizontal sheathing HAS to be blocked by code, (I know it should be if one has any work ethic).
For the record, all my work has vertical sheathing, and vertical drywall, and even that seems controversial for various reasons.
I'm just curious.
Is the horizontal sheathing you ask about part of a WSP (wood strucutral panel) within a prescriptive braced wall line or an engineered shear panel?
I'm talking about a standard WSP, I know an engineered shear panel would require blocking, and have additional requirements. My area is not prone to seizmic events, or hurricane force weather, but tornadoes are common here.There were 3 different ones this year within 5 miles or less from my home. Surprisingly, there are very few additional requirements for tornadoes.
go by the definition of "braced wall panel"
I am unaware of a "standard" WSP. How is that differentiated from a "non-standard" WSP? You may want to define what you mean by standard. I'd say it's probably more relevant to discuss panel construction as it applies to braced and non braced wall panels.
In that regard, the APA's guide to IRC wood wall bracing provisions defines braced wall panels as follows:
R202 Definintions
"BRACED WALL PANEL: A full-height section of wall constructed to resist in-plane shear loads through interaction of framing members, sheating materials and anchors."
I take "interaction" to mean a structural connection. Thus, I believe two horizontally oriented pieces of WSP sheathing connected in a full height section of a wall must have additional horizontal blocking installed and properly attached to the two pieces of sheathing in order for the framing & sheathing to "interact" and comply as part of an IRC prescribed braced wall panel (using WSP method).
However, keep in mind that this does not necessarily mean that ALL wood sheathed full height walls are part of the braced wall panel requirements prescribed by the IRC for any given dwelling. Therefore, horizontally oriented sheathing is not a structural issue with ALL wood sheathed frame walls and may not require blocking. In other words, not all walls need to be constructed to resist lateral loads.
The WSP I was referring to is an exterior wall on an average residential house. There were some large houses built in the 1990's here with sheathing in the corners and foam over the rest, covered in vinyl. I guess they are pretty much all still standing, a few caught fire and burned spectacularly. I don't know if that meets code now.
So, I don't know if that wall construction is a WSP, sure doesn't sound like one.
The introduction of the IRC in 2000 was partially in response to what was being built in the 1990's. I would hazard a guess that many of those homes you speak of would probably not pass plan review today if those juridications have adopted the IRC in their building departments.
As the APA guide points out on in Chapter 1, " a decade of significant progress and improvement to wall bracing commenced. Several new bracing provisions and methods, such as minimum bracing bracing, maximum braced wall line spacing, continuous sheathing, portal frames and seperate bracing requirements for wind and seismic loads, were added to the code."
Does that mean many of those existing homes are on the verge of collapse? I think not. Are some of the current homes being built that attempt to comply with IRC prescriptive code overstructured? Probably. However, that is not because the code is ill conceived, it is because many of the designers (and plan reviewers) that attempt to use it don't understand it. Builders are to blame as well. Many of them don't understand the concepts behind the prescriptive lateral bracing code either; much less how to apply it. IMO, more educaton is needed on the subject.
Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.
I have a better understanding about what all was discussed.
I worked at one time in a factory located in Xenia Ohio, the site was devastated in 1974 by one of the strongest tornadoes ever known. This is from wikipedia: On April 3, 1974 a tornado[10] rated F5 on the Fujita scale cut a path directly through the middle of Xenia during the Super Outbreak, the second largest series of tornadoes in recorded history. The disaster killed 34 people (including two Ohio National Guardsmen who died days later in a related fire), injured an additional 1,150, destroyed almost half of the city's buildings, and left 10,000 people homeless. Five schools, including Xenia High School, Central Junior High School, McKinley Elementary, Simon Kenton Elementary, and Saint Brigid Catholic School were destroyed, as were nine churches and 180 businesses.Xenia was struck by an F2 tornado on April 25, 1989 and again by an F4 tornado on September 20, 2000.
I was working there in 2000, and helped cleanup tornado damage then and could not believe the damage once again. Unbelievable! Some buildings were completely gone, others wire piles of broken material. I know little can be done for tornadoes, but still, I want a house that won't blow down in the wind.
One house I saw had been picked up and spun off the foundation, at least it held together. One entire shopping center was destroyed.
I was also helping a co worker dry in his house, It was in fair shape, except a tree went through his roof and all the windows were broken. The local shopping center had a "CD Connection" and CD's were lodged in his roof and siding, a big rooftop AC unit landed in his yard, and a boat, and the tornado picked up tons of gravel from the road maintenance department whigh broke out all the windows on one side of his house, some actually penetrating the sheathing. The tire store was gone and tires could be seen all over, in trees etc.
The biggest failures in the tornado seemed to be insufficient foundation securing, total roof losses which allowed the building to collapse, and failures of walls to to withstand the forces of wind.
read again
deadnuts wrote:
Mark122: I have no idea what your question is. You can't even repeat it correctly.
let break it down for you.
post #211539, reply #14 of 22
you say:
"Wondering why your framers ran your zip panel sheathing horizontal vs. vertical? I ask this because I didn't see any horizontal blocking at horizontal zip panel seams or metal diagonal let in bracing on your interior framing shots. How are you meeting your shear wall bracing requirments?"
post #211539, reply #15 of 22)
Savv says:
"Apologies that I haven't gotten a solid answer for you but back when we started I was told they run it horizontal because it offered better stiffness than when run vertically."
(post #211539, reply #16 of 22)
you say:
"They told you wrong."
post #211539, reply #17 of 22)
I ask you:
"when not using the zip panel system (and the blocking suggested by Huber) are shear wall requirements met with regular osb nailed horizontaly? yes, there are less joints, but shear wall requirements are met."
post #211539, reply #19 of 22
you say to me:
"copy and paste "
post #211539, reply #20 of 22)
I say to you:
"Can you tell by the pictures on the blog if the wall in question and the fastening schedule used, if the plans required this wall to be a shear wall? NOPE you cant.
Again the question was and still is...can shear wall requirements be met using osb nailed vertically? "
post #211539, reply #22 of 22)
you say to me:
"Mark122: I have no idea what your question is. You can't even repeat it correctly."
REALLY????
a blanket statement like the one you made is misleading and IMO irresponsible...sound familiar? another one of your favorites...relative.
depending on where you are, how these requirements can and are met. The only times we are requireded to do any metal strapping/let in bracing in these parts is when the home does not have any exterior sheathing.
In Tn. osb/zip/plywood with interior drywall satisfies any and all requirement for single family detached housing. I know it does in all neighboring states as well.
Commercial buildings are a different story but we know you dont get into that so we will leave that one alone.
hardly
mark122 wrote:
In Tn. osb/zip/plywood with interior drywall satisfies any and all requirement for single family detached housing. I know it does in all neighboring states as well.
VA is (unfortunately) a neighboring state to TN. I couldn't care less about TN, but as a Class A contractor in the state of VA I can say that your claim* as it applies to VA has no basis in the prescriptive wall bracing code whatsoever. The rest of your post contains so much jibberish that it's impossible to respond to. Have another beer.
*assuming that you refer to braced wall requirements, which is anybody's guess.
Good morning! Posted an update over the weekend. Go check it out and let me know if you have questions.
Just posted a HUGE update for the holidays. Enjoy!
After you're done recovering from St. Patty's Day festivities, check out the new update. Lots more eye candy this time around.
Happy Sunday! Posted an update this morning. Check it out as it shows our siding, some radiant insulation, and the snow melt.
The house is looking great!
Really like the hydronics for the side walk and landing...just glad i live far enough south to not have to deal with that!
Just posted a cool update showing off the boiler room downstairs. Check it out!
Well...
who kicked the paint can?
Is it the camera angle that makes the front door look real tall and narrow?
thanks and good luck on the finish.
Haha...yeaaaa...was shaking the paint upside down and it slipped out of my hands. Not the 1st time in my life I've done that.
Maybe camera angle, as all I've been using to shoot is a Canon 10-22. It's an 8' door, I believe 36" wide.
Hey,
I also want to make few updation in my home, Please help!
Was able to get an update posted a little sooner this time. Check it!
I know it's been awhile but I've finally gotten around to posting another update, now that we are moved in!
Tweak by tweak we are getting some more stuff done. Check out the latest update I posted last night!