So I just got my March 03 FHM, and I noticed on page 52 an article titled “Black and Decker to close DeWalt plant” The long and short of it is that Black and Decker is moving their production to Mexico as well as low wage plants in Brazil, China, Czech Republic. The part that 1300 people will be out of work is mentioned too.
Just something to think about when you go for your next tool purchase.
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Replies
So, what tool lines in that class will still be made in the US? Are there any left?
Add Maytag to the sellouts closing the Galesburg Ill. plant moving to Mexico.
The Galesburg plant is 32 miles north of where I type from. I hate to say it but the union chased them south. Catapillar is not far from here either, when the go on strike or have employee reductions, you can buy bass boats on every corner. This trade is one of the hardest to make a living at. Most DIY'ers can buy materials at the same price as most contractors, this dosen't happen in the plumbing or electrical fields. Then again this is America and if I don't like the way it is I can always do something else!
That's the result of competing with proprietary brands made in China and sold by HD.
And BTW keep buying Glacier Bay crap and Price Pfister... another Black and Decker Co will be gone. They only move because, You the market demands it.
Then you complain. Try actions instead of words cause complaining ain't going to cut it.
Third time in six weeks.
This topic is getting as hot as
"What are those black diamonds every 19.2" on my tape measure for?"
Excellence is its own reward!
Well, whats a guy to do? Honestly. I have a whole tool trailer that glows yellow and black. I have always been satisfied with the job the DeWalt tools do for me. But we found out about a month ago that DeWalt was moving to Mexico and other points south and far east, so I made up my mind that when I saw "hecho en Mexico" on a DeWalt tool or any other brand, I wasn't going to buy it. I feel strongly that we have to stand behind our own people. Who is going to buy the houses we build when no one but construction workers have jobs in the U.S? I think NAFTA was the worst thing that happened to the U.S. working man in a long time. The way jobs are moving out of our country, we will be a country full of buyers only, I'm afraid. Its kind of scary. Here in Idaho, we have literally millions of acres of forests that people are allowed in only by foot. Many, many of these acres are beetle killed trees, but we aren't allowed to log them. So even us carpenters are dependant on outside sources for the wood we build those houses with. Any thoughts on these matters?
I spent a couple weeks backpacking the Middle Fork of the Salmon River through your wilderness area. Saw the sawtooth range from the back side.
Creating wilderness and isolating it from productive management is something you can talk to environmentalists about. Pro and Con. But it doesn't have anything to do with NAFTA, or does it????
We have some of the same issues here in Maine. Paper mills close down while we buy Canadian lumber and paper. I and others think that regulations pushed through by "greens" are designed to make logging here unprofitable or to drive costs up so that the indutry is exported and the land is then worth less so they can take it out of production and make parks or developements out of it. Great Northern land Grab! You'll hear more about it in headlines in the future.
Possibly the tariff on Canadian lumber is less of a stab at Canadians and more at environmentalists on the south side of the border by strategicly hurting their plans. Just my own rambling speculations.....
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the reply, Piffin. I just kind of link the loss of jobs in the U.S. to NAFTA and while I was on a roll (rant) I remembered my buddy's comment from this weekend about the acreage that could not be logged and why. I love this place I live and don't want any industry to ruin it, but I try to be a moderate in my approach to everything. I think its stupid to lean too far to the left or the right. A certain amount of logging is a good thing for the forest and the economy. No, I didn't say clearcut a million acres. My buddy is one of 25 people left at the sawmill in Emmett, Idaho. Emmett's Boise-Cascade mill used to be the main employer for the town. The sawmill all but shut down due to the environmentalist's efforts. Its not related to NAFTA in any way, but the results are the same. No work for the mill workers because there is no logging. So the mill workers relocate, which has a mushroom affect throughout the whole town. Restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations, etc.,etc., all feel the pinch. In the 70's and 80's, I played music at three bars in Emmett. Now, there is only one and it doesn't hire bands. So I just rolled my worries about the jobs heading south into one big gripe and put it in this thread.
We have our share of the green movement; B.C. has been a primary target of Greenpeace since it's inception, and our costs reflect that. Interesting though, in that there are always big protests out on the temperate west coast where the scenery is beautiful and the beach and the welfare office are close at hand, but never any in northern B.C. where life and the climate are harder.
I don't think either country gains an advantage, and we both lose jobs. Once in a while, something good does come out of it. Are your mills increasing production?
Edited 1/27/2003 12:54:36 AM ET by Dick
Just rationalize it like everyone does about their foreign cars.
Article said some of the stuff will still be assembled here in the US.....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
increasing?
they've been in retrograde for years now.
It's not all national policy. This state is one of the least business friendly states you can find anywhere.
The state flag has its historical heros on it. A sailor, a farmer, a logger - representing the basic fact that our strength has come from the sea, the soil, and the trees. Hard work is necessary to benefit from any of them. Current and recent administrations have forgotten that fact..
Excellence is its own reward!
The next time you walk through a steel or fiberglass entry door with a glass lite in it, look at the label on the lite. Probably 90 percent of the glass assembly for door lites is done in Mexico. As a matter of fact, your automobile's radio, steering wheel, shift knob, and a whole lot of its other parts were made there. The operations are called maquiladoras, and it means "in bond." All raw materials are brought across the border into Mexico, fabrication or assembly is done there, and finished stuff exported back over. Very little, if any, Mexican material content.
Don't know about production, but things aren't going that well. This is from an industry newsletter I get every week (this article is written by an American; the newsletter is written half in Canada, half in the U.S). Basically, the Southern producers have blocked a lot of Canadian lumber....claiming it's subsidised, which it isn't....and the hole has been filled by Scandinavian, Russian, and German lumber (sourced in Eastern Europe, largely)....which is subsidised up the wazoo. Lots of subsidies to the American business too, but that doesn't get talked about, because the onus is on the Canadians to prove they don't. I know a lot of the mills belonging to members of the Coalition, including some of Rusty Woods, have had periods of closures. Stopping the Canadian lumber was supposed to fix everything, right?
Law of unintended consequences
An item in the January 7th issue of LBM Daily says
"After pressing for 27% duties on Canadian lumber last
spring, industry powerhouses such as International Paper,
Temple-Inland Co. and Georgia-Pacific Corp. have failed
to produce higher profits. In fact, profits at the three
companies dropped as much as 66 percent in the
July-September quarter after rising imports from Russia,
Germany and other countries - including Canada - drove
prices down more than 30 percent." Canadian producers’
profits are also down, although perhaps not so severely.
The primary result of US countervail and anti-dumping
actions has been to prevent the North American lumber
industry from cashing in on the hottest housing market in
forty years.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
Just curious about something you said:
"...the hole has been filled by Scandinavian, Russian, and German lumber (sourced in Eastern Europe, largely)."
What part of the country would that lumber be going into? Here in Illinois, it's almost exclusively SYP or SPF. Used to be a bit of Doug Fir, but I haven't seen any of that for years.......If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
Rusty and the boys made the pie, now they have to eat it.
Shipments to the US from interior B.C. producers have actually expanded considerably as producers have closed higher cost mills, ramped up production at low cost facilities, installed new technology and gained worker concessions. Net effect is lower unit cost of Canadian production (as if Rusty and the boys weren't already in trouble). It's not high profit yet, but most mills are making money and the flood of lumber going south has knocked American prices to ten year lows. Downside is we have fewer jobs involved in producing more lumber, but at least we are still producing.
One Scandanavian supplier has asked Home Depot to be released from their supply contract because they just can't compete. Home Depot has complied and is putting the contract out to tender to three Canadian and two other Scandanavian producers. Due to the high value of the Euro, Scandanavia is pulling back from the Japanese market too - a boon to our coastal industry.
This situation is what led to the recent American proposal on how we need to structure our industry in B.C. in order to satisfy Rusty's needs. Primary among the instructions is permitting access to our raw log supply to American producers - fat f...ing chance of that.
The final nail in the Southern producer's coffins will be a recognition by the US of the WTO ruling that the Byrd amendment is in breach of international trade law. Suddenly, all of those legal bills they are running up to prolong this situation will come out of their own pockets rather than be paid for out of the duties collected. I wonder how many will go out of business as a consequence?
Edited 1/27/2003 4:09:24 PM ET by Dick
I'm not sure I'm ready to blame the greenies on this one. Drive across the border into Tijuana, and you know the standard of living just took a nosedive. Lotsa people standing around; not enough jobs, no chance of any workers demanding anything close to a USA salary or benefits. It's not hard to see why this workforce is attractive to corporate management focused only on the bottom line.
Sure there are far less environmental restrictions (and far less building codes too!) but would you really want to live with the results? Not from what I've seen.
Pete
Didn't know you backpack. A hobby of mine too. Along with kayaking.Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
Long time ago. My back's gone out now.
Solitude in those mountains helped me either define myself or get to know myself.....
Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry to hear that. I don't hike alone. Usually at least one of my kids wants to go along. We do weekend trips up and down the AT through NJ. Also do camping trips in kayaks. Lots of fun. My kayaking buddy told me of an excellent trip he did to ME, and NH, where he did a lot of paddling. Might try it this year. I mostly hike fall, winter, and spring, and do the kayaking in the summer. Happy trails.........
Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
Back to the lumber issue several posts ago. As I am sure a lot of areas in the US can attest to, the industry in our area (Dultuh, MN) has been hit hard in the last 20yrs (more so in the last 5). A few things that have happened lately(within a year or two): A paper plant lays off 300 in a town of 3000-blamed on profits; another paper plant closed, another paper plant sold to a South African company - figure that one out; most taconite (steel derivative) and steel plants either closing, filing bankruptcy, or trying to sell off to the highest bidder (usually foreign); and best of all, last fall, we received the first shipment into the port of stick lumber from Germany, in an area were loggers are struggling to make ends meet.
I absolutely agree with a previous post (sorry, I don't remember who) that said that we are headed to becoming a 'consumer only' society, far worse than a 'consumer based' economy. I think that it is a combination of factors that have lead to the industrial/manufacturing turn down: lowest price as common denominator to the consumer, taxes, insurance, medicare, NAFTA, etc, etc. I am afraid to say it, but it is probably going to take a dramatic economic disaster to change our social paradigm. We, as a society, are going to have to be forced into a change. I say this because for the past 20-30 years, the 'Buy American' slogan has only been a 'warm and fuzzy' notion that everyone agrees with, but very few actually implement because they haven't been affected by the issues, they are ignorant to the impacts on our society, or they just don't care.
Whew! Thanks for letting me vent!
"I say this because for the past 20-30 years, the 'Buy American' slogan has only been a 'warm and fuzzy' notion that everyone agrees with..."
I don't agree with that slogan, youbetcha. I think that type of thinking is shortsighted. We are coming closer and closer to a world economy. If we insist on propping up established American industries by buying their products because they share a government with us, we are only hurting ourselves long term.
The sooner we recognize that ALL people are brothers and sisters, the sooner we can start pooling our resources and energies toward the propagation of our species and environment. As it is now, we are spending far too much energy on fear, hate, and death technology.
There is an islands kayaking trail that runs past here.
Alert me with an email if you are coming. I believe they spend a night at Warrens Island which is only a couple hundred yards away..
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks. Probably won't be until July or August, But I will drop you a line.Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
I think government requlation has a lot to do with driving manufacturing jobs out of the country.
Workman's comp, OSHA, Family leave act, Social security, Medicare, medicaid, EPA requirements, Frivolous lawsuits, liability insurance costs, health insurance costs, etc. Whether you do or don't like any of these things, they cost businesses money when they operate in this country.
Then consumers flock to wally world, the big boxes, etc. And insist on buying stuff cheaper and cheaper. Price is all that matters to 99% of the population. So the companies are squeezed more and more to produce at lower and lower cost.
To me the question is why would a business NOT move their manufacturing to another country?
So - When's the Wizard going to get back to you about that brain?
The talk about NAFTA causing jobs to move to Mexico is quite amusing for Canadians. Most Canadians were afraid all their jobs would go to the US when the original NAFTA was signed. And, in fact, a huge part of Southern Ontario took a big hit. This was a region full of "branch plants", basically the Canadian subsidiary of the US manufacturer, making products for the Canadian market. As soon as NAFTA kicked in, a huge number of those plants closed.
There will always be a big push on to move manufacturing to wherever labor or environmental regulation (or lack thereof) makes it more attractive. The majority of consumers want low cost products, and high returns on investments.
Yup, and the maquilas are taking their own hit.....tons of empty factories there,and the jobs moved to even lower cost places.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
"To me the question is why would a business NOT move their manufacturing to another country?"
I was going to read the rest but you said it !
Dont ask what your country can do for you . Ask what you can do for your country. JFK
Vote the man out of office and make a stink. Change it,just dont bitch about it.
Remember the McDonalds story? Their business is 40% off ! Wendys is enjoying a 28 percent gain using US meat .
WE can start with Bush!
Tim Mooney
Not sure I got the point of your post.
FWIW - I'm almost certain that neither McDonald's or Wendy's use exclusively US beef.
.
(BTW - The tag line's not directed at you - It just came up in the rotation)Are you always an idiot, or just when I'm around?
"FWIW - I'm almost certain that neither McDonald's or Wendy's use exclusively US beef."
The point is that McDonalds doesnt use US meat!
Tim Mooney
Going from memory here, but I think the vast majority of the meat McDonald's uses is from the US.
There was a huge flap in the beef industry a while back when they started buying a percentage of their beef from offshore.I'm not as think as you confused I am.
I will see if I can find some print on it. Pretty big stink in the news a year or so ago. I got about a hundred emails on it asking me to ban the resturants use because of it. The difference is the regulations. Of course money.
Tim Mooney
I did a quick search, but couldn't find anything.
Going from memory from reading farm magazines, I think the flap was that they were going to start buying 1% (or so) of their beef overseas, as they couldn't get enough lean beef in the US. And the beef industry responded by saying they were un-american, and should buy 100% US beef whether they liked it or not.
Not a very intelligent response, IMHO.According to a new survey, women say they feel more comfortable undressing in front of men than they do undressing in front of other women. They say that women are too judgmental, where, of course, men are just grateful. - Jay Leno
McDonalds to use Aussie beef in US patties
2 2 02<!--Thursday, 4/4/2002-->
Fast food giant McDonalds will start using Australian and New Zealand beef in its American stores, due to the shortage of US beef.McDonalds argues its been forced to consider imported product because of a shortage of cheap, lean, grinding beef in the US.
Now we know this was about money that was later reported as in regulations. You remember that too. They lied because beef is cheap so there is no shortage. For enough money they can preorder any beef they want. Come on. They wanted the cheapest meat because of lack of regulations. That was well publicized also.
Tim Mooney
Edited 1/27/2003 11:08:38 AM ET by Tim Mooney
Where is that quote from?
i still haven't found anything useful yet. Been a busy mornin'.
Did find this link, though:
http://www.agriculture.com/sfonline/sf/2001/august/0109business.htmlNo amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.
I think it was actually that McD was going to have to buy upscale cuts (think sirloin) to make burgers because there wasn't enough "hamburger" in the market. This wasn't that much of a problem until the current cycle of flood/drought pushed the price of beef way up; AND, the demand for "hamburger" meat went way out of proportion to other cuts.
But that's probably not McD's major problem: the BIG problem is that consumers are getting tired of same-old-same-old on their menu; all the talk of new 'meals' is a crock while Wendy's is currently marketing "better" meals while the KFC/TacoBell chain is marketing "for a change" (notice the KFC to Taco Bell cross-over menu yet ?). Really damaging has been the rise, and then expansion, of food-courts in indoor malls - Chinese/Japanese/deli/Greek, they're all taking a big bite out of McD..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Pardon me while I wax philosophical; this probably won't solve anyone's immediate issues about where their tools are manufactured. But if it's help anyone get a better night's sleep, this whole issue is subject to a universal law ..... ready???
The only constant in our lives is change.
How does it apply? Because the world is moving to a market-based economy. The nationalistic economic model we have been raised with is becoming Mayflower material. Now I am not siding one way or the other on the issue ... but it's happening, and I personally believe that stopping it is like pissing against the tide. In the grand scheme of things, this entire issue is but a tiny blip on the radar screen, similar to the amount of time humans, for better or worse, have inhabited the planet.
Perhaps our energies are better used by demanding high standards of manufacture from any tool, regardless of its country of origin.
They say they have to move to stay competative, but mark my words , when they save that 100 million dollars, you won't see the price of a drill drop from $79 to $59, what you will read about is increased third quarter profits. BUIC
What was all that talk a few years ago about the U.S. having "post industrial economy"? Or the phrase "the information age"? Aren't we moving steadilly away from factory type jobs in this country?
"you won't see the price of a drill drop from $79 to $59,"
Maybe not, but you won't see it going to $89 either.
Actually look at the price of power tools now compared to 1990. Most of them will be the same or maybe even cheaper.
Look at what has happened to lunch box planners over the years. We have had several round of new versions at lower prices and each one being an improvement over the ones before them.
Whats going to happen when Americans with no jobs can't buy the foreign made products and the People in these foreign countrys have a job but don't make enough to afford them either? Scary thought.
Dick
They say two Dicks are better than one.
LAST LONGER TOO.
Betcha I'm taller!
>>Whats going to happen when Americans with no jobs can't buy the foreign >>made products and the People in these foreign countrys have a job but don't >>make enough to afford them either? Scary thought.
I agree. I have an avid interest in economics. There are several easy-to-make misperceptions about the way economies work that affect this. But I sure don't know any answers.
First, people get up in arms about federal deficits. The truth is these do not work the same as our personal finances when the entity has montage, the right to coin money. You didn't mention it but a lot of people think it's a sign we're going to hell in a handbasket.
Second, all of the foreign goods we buy result for quite a while in foreigners accumulating lots of american dollars. (trade deficits). At some point you would no longer be willing to hold someone else's i.o.u's - this will happen - and the american currency will devalue against foreign currencies substantially. Then American goods will be cheap and foreign goods expensive. We cannot escape this eventuality.
Our economy dwarfs the rest of the world. We are $12 trillion dollars - and no time soon are people not going to be able to buy things. It's alarming when manufacturing moves out. What stays is non-transportable businesses - construction, healthcare, heavy items not economical to ship, distribution, retailers. But while the rest of the world is willing to take i.o.u's for the goods, where are we hurt? A $70 billion trade deficit is that much someone loaned us, and when they try and call the loan they will see serious inflation on the price of the goods they are buying. supply and demand.
Things are never as bad as they seem. We live in good times my friend.
remodeler
These are half-explanations at best. For example, yes, a country can finance deficits by printing more money and devaluing the currency (it's like printing more shares to a company, each existing share has less value); then the amount of US$'s for each unit of trade purchased goes up and you have inflation. Or, you can borrow from other countries and forever pay them tribute - that's what powered up the US economy after WWII; that's what powered up the Japanese economy in the 70's/80's when they were using your dollars to buy US corporations which they are now moving offshore..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario