FINALLY laying tile in the bathroom…and I really like the scalloped edge 13″ tiles I have on a 45 degree layout.
My tile experience includes the 10×12 utility room I did with 12″ square boring tiles…came out pretty good…straight and even and level.
Any hints when dealing with the scalloped edges that might save me some grief? Obviously the grout lines will vary…part of the look I like…and it seems that putting them closer may be better than farther, i.e. no more than a nominal 1/8″ or so…as the scalloping will produce much wider lines in places.
I kinda think spacers aren’t going to work…and I have to work off my layout lines, tape, measuring story stick, and eyeballs.
The 45 should only aid in making it a bit more troublesome…LOL…but i figure there just on straight lines if I stand differently!
I have figured out my edge pieces OK…and how to center the “edge sizes” up evenly.
Figured I’d better ask sooner than later to hear the tidbits from the experts!
Thanks!
Replies
Whats the question?
Verification I guess....
Don't use spacers? Minimize the intended grout line?
Does it sound like I'm heading in the right direction? Any tips to pass along regarding the scalloped and "uneven" edges? Or laying out on a 45?
For a 13" tile your grout line is going to vary between 3/16 & 3/8 with a scalloped edge. As for as using spacers you can use to get tile set and then eyeball for final set.
For 45's use 3,4,5 or 6,8,10 for layout one leg of 45 will be say 3', right angle from that will be 4' diaagon will be 5' that will get you a true 45 degree angle.(see edit)
Layout is the most important step in laying tile,so spend some time figuring where cuts will occur. Look at room and figure where walls, cabs, etc. try to make cuts occur under cabs or where visually they are not as prominate. You don't want to end up with small tiles at entry or little silvers occuring elsewhere. At some point you will have to make comprimise but try to do this in areas that are less visual.
oops the formula I gave you is for determining a true right angle, you will have to establish the angle for a fourty five, but once you get that this formula will work for snapping line for layout. 45 degree will be equal legs off a 90degree connect the dots will give you the diagonal.
Don't no how your using spacers but stand them on ends instead of flat in joint, hope this gives you some clarification good luck
Edited 6/18/2003 9:36:44 PM ET by DANUSAN11
for non-straight edge tiles...if the room size is too big for me to eyeball it....I'll just snap more guide lines. Every other course will take just a bit more time.....but really helps speed ya back up and keep things in line when covering a large area.
That way..I don't get cross eyed headaches from staring at something that may or may not be straight.
Larger tiles "generally" call for larger grout lines. Usually you can guess at what the manufacturer had in mind when you measure the tile......see just how smaller than the full 13 inches the tile is...on average for a wavy edge....and see if that's what ya like.
Easiest way..and I do this for most all customers.....is lay out a full box and see how it looks.
I also do the layout with a tape.....then dry lay what's practical. More ofter than not..the dry lay get's adjusted a fraction here and there to make for a more perfect layout.
And diagonals are only diagonal from one angle..... Walk a quarter ways around and now everything's straight...don't let it throw ya. Diagonals and larger tiles.....12 or 13 inches....can make a small room look bigger. I recommend that layout alot in smaller baths and always get compliments when finished.
Have fun....dry lay...and don't mix up too much thinset so it flashes over before ya use it up.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Defiinately snap lots of lines, or if the room is too small to snap many lines, then dry lay every tile. Use a black felt pen to draw lines between the tiles for your reference lines. If you dry lay or snap accurate lines you can do all your cuts before you ever mix up the mud. No fuss no muss. Anyway with those tiles on a 45 you will never see the lines. concentrate as much on level. I prefer a 1/2 X 1/2" trowel for large tiles. it uses more mud but makes it easier to install. Also try to keep the grout lines as clean as possible. with luck you will not have to do any scraping before grouting. if you have not done much tiling before, only mix up small batches at a time. say half a five gallon pail. enjoy.
Thanks guys! I spent about an hour tonight dry laying two boxes...and I can see it's kinda a matter of tweaking here and there to get it all just right. I must say, these scalloped tiles on a 45 look really sweet to me. This is a bathroom, room size is some 10.5'x10' wall to wall...so after the tub/shower and vanity, much smaller. I will be putting tile everywhere except for under the tub...that is already in.
So by dry lay....I take it you mean to just lay down all the tiles, then pick a few up and set them in mud, and just continue onward that way? I think that's what I am going to do.
And yes, once one "row" is set, the others are just all straight when you turn your body 45 with respect to the wall. Now I will see how square all my walls are for sure!
Thanks again...I think it will be fun. I'll use the 1/2" x1/2", don't mind using a bit more mud...and I assume it is then straightforward to accomodate my not absolutely perfectly flat slab I am laying on...right?
Thanks!
One last question....
When I go to grout these...its done the same way I assume?? The tiles also have little "craters" in the surface, ie. not perfectly flat...will the grout tend to get stuck in there?
They are pretty smooth...not like ridges in rough slate or anything, so I assume if I clean them a dozen times I'll be all set....right?
And yes, I've learned to keep those grout lines as free of mud as I can...I did a pretty good job with this in the utility room...but in a few spots had to scrape out the thinset.
Thanks!
Little trick that I use for cleaning tiles after grout is to wipe tiles with dry terry cloth rag keeping clear of grout lines. Sweep up dust with fine broom, shop vac lightly, then wet sponge grout lines and tiles with constant rinising of sponges. This really speeds up the cleaning and wiping of tiles and grout lines. Works for me Good luck
Yes, the grout will tend to get stuck--but only if you don't rinse the surface off fast enough. The key is that sometimes you have to pay extra attention to the tile, but most good grouting techniques will not result in this problem. I've been out of the biz for a while, but, as a rule, if the grout is mixed well, allowed to set for just the right amount of time, and then the tile is wiped clean, all you will need is some cheesecloth for additional polishing.
My 2 cents on irregular tiles.
Wider grout lines are better, especially with larger format tiles. Grout is our friend.
Forget tile spacers. Use an "A" Square (a folding right angle square used by tile guys) and some long straight edges and chaulk lines to lay out the courses on the 45. Longer straight edges will give you more accuracy.
While I sometime chaulk lines, I prefer a Sharpie. Less wiggle room with a Sharpie and the lines stay narrow and crisp. I use Red for reference lines (the center lines and perpendicular lines) and Black for the actual grout lines.
A story stick for the courses will save you time. Just have some tick marks for each grout line, and lay it across one of the Red reference lines and transfer the grout lines onto the setting bed.
As for grouting, if they are truly irregular, like Saltito, a preseal or grout release would prevent grout from staining the tile.
I use a Grout System Bucket which has a series of sponges with slits in them which really grab the grout. The bucket has a ledge about half way up with a grate which releases the grout in the sponge with one whack. The same bucket has an insert top which wrings out the sponge with two rollers. Your hands never get a drop of water on them. It is really sweet, but probably not for the one time tiler. I can grout 100 square feet of floor tile in about 90 minutes. It is that fast.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
sounds like U like your bucket....
I got mine a while back..and after giving it the old college try.....I mostly use it just as a water bucket.....
maybe I screwed up those velcro sponges the first time? I just couldn't seem to get the hang of ringing them clean enough....
any special technique I might be missing?
I spent enough for that bucket on wheels that I should give it another try...
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Yep, thats one expensive water bucket.
I just whack and drag the sponges in the shelf, which gets all the grout out. Then 2-3 moves with the rollers and it is as dry as I could get it by wringing it out. Is your problem the sponges are clean enough or they are too wet, or both?
I love the floor sponges, about three times the size of a normal sponge, so the grouting goes, yep, three times as fast.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Thanks again guys...I do have one of those folding 45 layout squares...just for this job. Plus all the other 45 stuff I layout...eventually some flooring...and T&G on the walls.
When I grout...I mix the stuff, let it sit for a bit, and then push it into the cracks on a 45 with the "grout float" tool. Then I just start cleaning the tile. Should I wait a considerable time before cleaning the tile? I stay away from the groutlines best I can at first...then eventually just clean right over them.
Then in 24 hours they get sealed with that, can't remember the name, but about $60 a quart "magic wet" or something of that name...I believe I heard it mentioned here as the best thing to use.
Should I use this stuff to "seal" the tiles before grouting?
Hopefully this will be all academic by the end of the weekend. LOL
I'd buy a grout release sealer. It is designed for this use if you have highly tectured tiles.
I've never heard of the $60 a quart sealer Magic whatever. But with sealer you get what you pay for. I use a comparably priced Aquamix Gold15, which has a 15 year warranty. Sounds like you have a good one.
Apply the grout and let it sit for at least 15-30 minutes. If you clean up too soon, its no big deal, what will happen will the grout in the grout lines starts comming up too. Wait a little longer. Probably no longer than 45 minutes, depending on heat and humidity.
The keys to grout clean up are these:
Lotsa clean water. 3-4 small buckets of clean water. Get a helper (read: Wife) to empty and fill up buckets. Keep changing buckets.
2-4 good grout sponges. Really wring them out and get all the water out of them. Dry is good. I'll get 2 sponge loads to a small bucket and then switch to 2 clean sponges and another clean bucket. Get a helper (read: Wife) to help wring out the sponges.
I go at a 45 degree angle to the grout lines. If you go parallel, ya'all tend to lift out the grout.
Do the whole thing in one pass. Don't worry about grout residue, just get through in one pass. Then do a second; and if necessary a third.
Wait about 3-4 days, then seal.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Thanks to all! The tiles are all down and look, I think, great! The cutting was no problem on my little $80 Plas-n-plugs wet saw. Wouldn't want to cut many bevels on it though....but freehanding the 13" tiles was no problem.
Thanks for all the help! And yes, I was talking about the Aqua Mix Gold 15...LOL...guess I really killed that name the first time around.
Thanks!