Wondering if there are any sources of good information out there on the best way to season firewood. I’ve poked around the web a bit and found a dozen different opinions, all professing the be the “right way.”
Just figured maybe there were some solid techniques/guidelines to getting that moisture content down to 20% or so.
I’ve burned a bit of wood in my day, but now I’ve got a Vermont Castings Encore (catalytic, clean-burning stove) as primary heat and need to put away some serious wood. My goal is to burn well-seasoned hardwood (we’ve got lots of red oak and ash here on the land).
Some questions:
I generally like to cut trees in the winter, buck and split them right away. Is it best to store the split wood stacked under cover from snow but open to the air and sun?
Does oak really take two full years to season (that’s the standard practice here in Maine)?
Because I was so busy on the house, I didn’t get much firewood cut last winter. But there’s a ton of poplar I cut 2 winters ago that’s stacked in cord-length (uncovered). I realize the stuff won’t burn like oak or ash, but I’m thinking I’ll split a bunch up just to get me through this winter.
What’s the best way to season wood quickly? I’ve heard of some solar-heated woodsheds that supposedly “bake” the moisture right out of the wood. Anybody have experience with that?
Thanks,
Ed
Replies
I generally like to cut trees in the winter, buck and split them right away. Is it best to store the split wood stacked under cover from snow but open to the air and sun?
I wouldn't even cover them...just stack them in a pyramid, bark side out
Does oak really take two full years to season (that's the standard practice here in Maine)?
Depends on how wet it was to start with. If you like to cut in winter, moisture content is lower, and you get a head start on the early spring/summer drying time. I've done it where I've cut in early winter, piled over the summer corder up in the fall, and burn the next spring.
Because I was so busy on the house, I didn't get much firewood cut last winter. But there's a ton of poplar I cut 2 winters ago that's stacked in cord-length (uncovered). I realize the stuff won't burn like oak or ash, but I'm thinking I'll split a bunch up just to get me through this winter.
Poplar really is pretty good firewood, as long as you keep it off the ground while it's curing.
What's the best way to season wood quickly? I've heard of some solar-heated woodsheds that supposedly "bake" the moisture right out of the wood. Anybody have experience with that?
Without adding heat, seems the quickest way to dry is heaped in a triangle (like a teepee) over concrete that is drained really well. I have a neighbor who always has a pile out in the open on an old slab that used to be part of his feedlot.
>> Does oak really take two full years to season ...
Fortunately, you don't have to depend on the experts :) to answer this. Pick a few representative pieces and weigh them periodically until the weight stabilizes. At that point they're as dry as they're ever going to get stored outside.
I also burn all winter. I find that logs, split right after cutting, and top covered, will season nicely over a full summer. The key is allowing lot's of air flow thru the stack.
Nothin' more frustrating than having to get off the couch every 20 mins. to poke a wet fire.
Ditch
Or having to remind her to poke the fire every 20 min.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I think johnnyd hit everything pretty well. Just thought I'd add a couple of comments.
I help an Uncle farm, and he cuts wood all the time. He's 65 and has never lived in a house with an electric or gas heater. He sells a lot of firewood too, so I think he knows his stuff. I help him farm and cut firewood, and he gives me free firewood in return.
He cuts it, splits it shortly thereafter, and stacks it in rows. The rows are set on old concrete blocks to keep them off the ground. Old posts set in the ground on the ends keep the stacks straight. At times he may have a semi load or more of firewood stacked in his pasture.
He never covers firewood with anything. Covers keep the rain off, but also keep the sun off and limit airflow.
If he gets short on firewood during particularly cold winters, he just finds some dead trees to cut down and uses/sells that.
Leaders are like eagles - they don't flock ... you find them one at a time
If I remember rightly, you are right across the bay from me here on Islesboro.
Cut on a wane-ing moon, in fall or wionter, sap is going down then so the wood will dry faster. While still green rain will help pull the sap out of the wood but not dry it so it is a toss up whether to cover it. Never cover with plastic. I use scrap ends of plywood like big shingles to shed most of the water off the pile.
So if you cut in winter, on a waning moon, and split it and stck so air can circulate, it will be ready to burn the following winter.
Poplar is regarded aas a weed tree here. no lumber value and little firewood value. We cut a couple one year for a construction project and my lead man took it home to burn. He split it a year later and the water was still pissing out at him then. Don't remember the moon phase when we cut but it was late summer when leaves were still flush. I find that polar will burn hot and fast when it drys but the ash content is high so sometimes it seem like I am carrying out a bucket of ash for every armfull of wood I carry in. It won't pitch up a chimney though because of the heat and little sugar in it.
The oak will be great, onceyou get iot dopwn and dry. Maple and birch not too bad either. birch absolutely has to be split right away. The waterproof bark will hold the water inside and the bacteria will feed well on the sugars in the sapwood so it rots quickly if not split.
Use old pallets to keep it up off the ground to let air circulate. .
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the tips--that's very cool about the waning moon and the sap. Never would've guessed it. Wonder what the logic is behind it, unless it's just one of those mysterious cycles of nature. I kind of figured the sap was more or less dormant in winter unless we got a warm stretch.
Guess the poplar will do for this winter--I've also got about half a cord of ash I cut last February, which I just got around to splitting over Labor Day. Find that ash seems to season very quickly and burns nice--at least the stuff I burned last winter while finishing the interior, which had only been split and stacked the previous June.
Some birch and not much maple on my land here, but more oak than you can shake a stick at (yuk). We cleared out most of the poplar that had started retaking the edges of the meadow when we bought the place (suckers shoot up from their roots every summer, just like weeds).
Just curious--you grow up on the island or elsewhere in Maine?
My wife grew up here as a Durkee. I'm imported blood.
Ash is good wood - hate to split it by hand tho..
Excellence is its own reward!
What are your preferred tools and techniques for cutting and splitting? Thanks.
Preferred chain saw: Stihl.
Preferred spitting method: Experience. My sons can work circles around me on basic manual labor, but I can split wood faster than either one of them. Keep at it and pay attention to what happens.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
My nieghbors dual ram 30T splitter and his kid.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
What are your preferred tools and techniques for cutting and splitting?
I use a PTO powered screw. Lots of clumsy people have managed to get hurt using one. Went through 4 tanks of fuel in my Stihl yesterday. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
What's a Durkee?Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Family name.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Family name. There are a bout five or six families here from whom most of the natives are descended and whose names are profusely found in the phone book or the cemetery.
Excellence is its own reward!
If one of those folks answers the phone... Time to leave.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I get it. Kind of like Vigil, Cordova, Andreatta, Faris, and Sporleder here. And some people think ethnic diversity is city thing!Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
The more progeny you lewave, the more votes you get at the annual Halloween cemetery Meeting.
;)_.
Excellence is its own reward!
It's always good to have the important stuff covered!Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Guess I'll add my two cents worth of smoke. Up here in Michigan upper peninsula winters are long, heating season starts like tomorrow and might cease in late April. I burn lots of wood. Vermont castings in the home and a big *ssed Liberty Lopi in the shop not to mention a barrel job for the garage. Maple, beech and birch are the primary sources. In this humid climate it takes two seasons to properly dry wood, stacked in an open shed with a roof. I split a mixture of sizes, the big stuff (10 inches and up) gets quartered, up to 4 inches gets split in half and the rest stays in round. The round stuff burns the slowest and last the longest. To some burning wood is an art form, a way of life, for me it's the best way to get rid of a project gone bad and recoup my losses with some BTU's.
I think the waning moon advice has to do with the moon's gravitational pull on the sap, the same way it causes the tides.
Mike
That's true to some degree. Here's my interpretation of why;
most trees responmd to number of daylight hours so they start to puit up the sap to feed new lerave making in the spring when daylight hours get longer. So sap is rising in spring and falling in fall anyway. Also, you don't want wet sap in the tree during deep freezes in deep winter or it wil split the wood so it is stored in the roots against freezing. since a moon is flecting the light, the increase in total amt of light during a waxing moon will always cause more sap in the wood than during a waning moon, reardless of which month it is. Therefore, picking a month like December or Janruary and the waning moon in that month will let you be starting out with the driest wood even before you start curing it for burning. If drier to start with, it is cured more quickly of moisture, but also, since the sap is stored sugar and sugar makes more creosote, it burns cleaner.
Cutting poles for fence posts follows the same advice. Dryer wood will not rot as quick because it has less sugar or moisture to feed the bacteria or invite certain bugs in..
Excellence is its own reward!
Sound advice on timing and use piffin, no contest there. I was addressing the "wonder why it does that...mystery of nature" angle.
Your interpretation of seasonal sap content being based on # of daylight hours is right on. It's called Photoperiodism. But it seems beliveable that the moon's gravitational pull can have an effect on sap flow also. It's commonly believed that the moon's pull helps draw water to the surface(and the roots)(as well water levels indicate) and also helps pull the sap and water upward inside the plant. Tree trunk diameters also swell with the lunar cycles and the increased fluid flow.
The only real question is: Does photoperiodism cause the trunk and plumbing to swell, resulting in more capillary action and higher sap content; or: does the trunk swell as a result of increased flow due to normal capillary action and lunar pull combined?
I tend to think the latter, but nobody knows for sure.
Mike
Those are good points too, but if we spend too much time dwelling on this subject, we'll go luney.
Excellence is its own reward!
Or we'll go lunar...
Just got back from the Common Ground Fair this afternoon and was speaking there to a gentleman by the name of Bill Donnell, older fellow who runs a little saw mill up in Sedgwick (he was written up in FHB a while back, produces rift-quarter sawn white pine clapboards).
Anyway, we were talking about cutting trees and I asked him about the waning moon and sap. He nodded, pulled his pipe out of his mouth, leaned toward me and said "waning moon in February--always the best time." I pressed him a little as to why February, he shrugged and said something about how that's just one of those things only God can answer. But he was very definite about the wood having the least sap at that time.
Thoughts?
The theories about light and the moon's gravitational pull are certainly plausible--and fascinating. Thanks for sharing that.head
AWOOooooooo
Mike
"Sap" can mean two things: (1) water and mineral nutrients in the xylem (and this is drawn up to the canopy during the summer as water evaporates from leaves), (2) water, sugar and other organic solutes in the phloem (and this is pumped from place to place in the plant, for example from leaves to fruits, leaves to roots, roots to shoots, depending on the plant's needs.
The idea that the gravitational attraction of the moon can cause sap to rise is very far fetched. If that were possible, dry leaves on the forest floor would float up in the air when the tide is high. Now that would be something to see.
There are a number of things wrong with your comparison example of dry leaves.
In the first place, they are dry. Thus far. effects of the moon having a gravitational effect on earthly things have only been reported on wet things
Then, leaves don't get pumped up into the air normally. If they did, it is conceiveable that the moons pull could accelerate or increase the degree to which they are so levitated or the number of leaves that do so.
Thirdly, the leaves laying on the forest floor are dead. Who cares about an old dead leaf..
Excellence is its own reward!
In principle, the gravitational attraction of the moon makes everything on earth, wet or dry, move. The gravitational attraction between two objects is equal to the product of their masses divided by the square of the distance between them. This fact was established by Isaac Newton and has nothing to do with whether the objects are dry or wet. My point about the old wives tale with the sap and the moon is that the claim can be tested (not that it needs to be). If you don't like my dry leaf thought experiment, here's another: set up a thin glass tube with the internal diameter of a xylem element. Put water in it. If your theory is correct, we should see the water drawn up when the tide is high. Your theory predicts that the rise should be very noticeable, if lunar attraction is to acount for the rise and fall of sap in a 75 ft. red spruce.
Should I post this? This could become a really dumb thread. What the heck ...
I grew up buring wood...still do. Dad has always received his load of logs during the winter and cut/split them during that same winter. We stacked in rows under a roof, open on all sides, about 1' off the ground on treated lumber "wood racks". Left about 4-8" between the rows...or tried to.
Come fall, we would burn that wood. No kindling is necessary...and I kid you not. A couple pieces of paper, a couple of smaller pieces of wood from the pile (but not kindling), a match, and poof...a fire. I was always impressed. Unfortunately, never have had the time to quite start that, hopefully until this winter.
Tarps of course suck...both for winter access and drying. I'd say under cover, like a roof, and open sides...off the ground. New York State here.
Burning wet vs. dry wood is like cutting with a dull vs. sharp chain.
I run a Husky 371XP saw...what a wonderful tool. And Armin, can't wait for the cold season to fire up the Liberty again...although its a battle, radiant heat or Liberty...until the oil man comes.
Thanks for the clarification on sap vs water, and the xylem and phloem.
While it may seem far fetched, there is a good deal of supportive evidence and research available. Now I'm no botanist, but I think it's reasonable to expect the moon's pull to have an effect supporting the relatively weak capillary action already present.
Lifting leaves is ridiculous comparison. And for that matter, no one was implying that the moon's pull could draw sap from root to canopy by itself.
Mike
>> ... there is a good deal of supportive evidence and research available.
Could you give us some citations?
Nothing off the top of my head, but I yahoo searched a coupla days ago(to see if I was off my rocker), and came up with a bunch of sites relating to lunar gardening/farming and sap/fluid flow.
And of course the fact that the moon distorts our whole planet by a coupla feet as it orbits. It acts on all parts of the earth, not just the whole.
Mike
Of course the moon willl have an effect. All objects attract each other. The moon and sun are raising the level of coffee in my cup as I type. So, of course, the gravitational attraction of the moon will have an effect on the sap. As you say, the lunar pull affects everything. The question is Does the pull of the moon have a MEASURABLE effect compared to other forces acting on the sap? I claim that these other forces (root temperature, soil and air temperature, sugar concentration in the sapwood, evaporation from leaves, etc.) are going to have so much effect that no instrument could possibly detect the effect of the moon's pull.
As for the internet -- you can find support for any crazy theory on the internet - alien abductions, pyramid power, reincarnation, werewolves, whatever. None of that on Breaktime, of course.
Back on subject - I left last summer's cut wood under the house with insufficient ventilation. Hope it dries. I love my new Stihl chainsaw.
Of course the moon willl have an effect.
Thank you.
Does the pull of the moon have a MEASURABLE effect compared to other forces acting on the sap? I claim that these other forces (root temperature, soil and air temperature, sugar concentration in the sapwood, evaporation from leaves, etc.) are going to have so much effect that no instrument could possibly detect the effect of the moon's pull.
Ahhh, OK, so now it does affect it but we can't measure it. I agree.
As for the internet -- you can find support for any crazy theory on the internet
Sure you can, I never said it was unrefutable validation, just that there are others that think it reasonable also. Some crazy, some not.
Anyhoo, that firewood probably would be drier if it was outside. Glad you like your Stihl, they're great saws. Congrats.
Mike
Let's not leave out the fact that there are a lot of thiongs that science cannot measure or has not yet proven true opr false. Just because it has not been proven one way or another via scientific evidence or replicatable in a lab does not mean it is inherently untrue.
Bumblebees cannot fly after all, accorcding to the best scientific minds.
Excellence is its own reward!
OK, I'll bite.
It's true that science is silent on many issues: morality, the meaning of life, does God exist, etc. But it doesn't follow that science isn't the best way to answer questions about the material world, e.g. sap in trees. I think that science is a better guide than folklore. The lunar pull theory makes predictions that can be tested. It's conceivable that in some mysterious way the gravitational pull of the moon has some measurable effect on sap flow or wood moisture content. I'm skeptical, but the claim can be easily tested: sample wood at different times of the lunar cycle, measure moisture content. Ideally, the measuring should be done by someone who doesn't know when the wood was sampled. A promise: if the moon theory is proven correct, I will eat all the samples.
Back to firewood: what do people do with the leftover oily gasoline when the chain saw is laid up for the dormant season (winter in my case)? I used to burn it in my rusty F150, but now that I have a gleaming Tacoma, I'm afraid to.
Come on...what is it? A cup or two?
The new Stihl oil has a stabilizer in it, I've left it in my saw for months and no trouble. I tried that (forgot to empty) though a few years ago and it cost me $40+ to replace a varnished up thing-a-ma jig in the carbuerator.
Edited 9/24/2003 12:02:55 PM ET by johnnyd
Yep. What should I do with it?
Given the amount of 2cycle oil in there, and the quantity of mix, I don't think it would hurt ANY internal combustion engine...F150, Tacoma, BMW.
Keep that little bit of gas and oil around to start the slash pile on fire after cutting all that firewood. Good to hear other people up here on the coast of maine are spending there weekends doing the same as I. Dont want to have to do those chores during hunting season!
P.S. My gasaxe is an older Jonsred 630 super- 62cc's great saw, but they have discontiued those and gone to the Turbo air injected models. Next one will be a Stihl 039 pro.
That 039 is a mighty big saw for firewood. My 026 with 16" bar has served well for 11 years of 3 1/2 cord winters. Or do you cut down big timber too?
I cut wood for a living for 5 years, now just firewood and such. The occasional weekend job with buddy who owns logging company. I run an 20" on my saw now like the legnth when limbing out logs, not always bending as much.
Well, that 'splains it. I outa try a 20".
What to do with extra pre-mix:
1) I usually just fire up the chain saws each month through the year. Find something to cut just to keep the saw in use for a whle. There's not really a single tree-cutting season at my house. When a tree falls in the forest, I hear about it. Often, it seems, at 4 am when someone 's had a heart attack and my wife is on call. So off I go in my pj's to cut some spruce or brich that fell across the driveway.
2) pour it into another 2-stroke (adding gas or oil for the right mixture) that is in use. Outboard, weedwhacker, snow thrower, snowmobile, etc.
3) Store it in a clearly labeled metal or polyethylene fuel can and wait for either a hazardous materials day at the dump or a pile a brush in need of a match.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
P.S. this whole moon-cycle tree sap thing is starting to sound like the "hot water freeezes faster" debacle of 5 years ago. You've got some who trust their science, some who trust what grandpappy told them, some who read the Farmer's Almanac like it was the Wall Street Journal, and some who get all their information by listening to Art Bell (listening between episodes of the X-Files, that is). And a few tree-sap agnostics.
I ain't volunteering this time, but I was the only one to test the freezing time of both hot and cold water and post the results. David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Dave, just love your posts. How did that hot and cold water experiment turn out? My money is on the cold water.
I used to cut firewood and sell it when carpentry was slow. I live in the Rockies, so most of it was softwood.
You've gotten good advice, but I'll throw in my two cents worth: If you split by hand, do it when the wood is still green and the temp is below zero. Wood's brittle.
I once sold wood to a guy who'd built a lean-to type shed. He'd covered the open south side with clear plastic, but left six or eight inches open at both top and bottom of the south wall. Wood was stacked on pallets like many do. He said it worked as a solar kiln and dried the wood fast. It's heresay!
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
BAM!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Used to go through 10+ cord every year to heat the folk's place (a drafty old farm house). Wood was the primary heat source w/ a Toyo kerosene stove for a backup. One of the stoves was a Vermont Castings ( Defiant I think) with a catylitic combustor. Great heat output and long burn times but pretty finicky on what you put in it- the wood absolutely has to be dry. Poplar ( or popple as the old timers call it) worked ok, oak, maple and ash are better. Popple will rot pretty quick if you don't get it split and stacked in short order. Kept it off the ground, stacked on old pallets and retired wooden walkways. Covered the top with tarps- no fun chiseling ice and snow off to get a load of wood. A rack inside the house to hold a 3 day or so days supply- got to watch out for bugs. We allowed the wood to season for about a year. Hopefully what you are cutting now is for next years heating season.
Monsier Ed,
I burn a lot of wood in a combo wood/coal 280,000 BTU forced air furnace. Nearly anything as long as it's free and often stuff that's not completely dry. The trick to burning wet wood (I mean less than optimally dry, ie. less than a year old) is to mix it with kiln dried hardwoods [in the firebox] like oak, maple, or my personal favorite Honduras Mahagony. You don't have to add a lot. Find a local cabinet shop, pattern shop, whatever and take their scrap off their hands. That's what I do.
Jon