Just got back the surveyor’s as built or sometimes called spot survey. I have a corner of a foundation 2″ into the set back. The city is a no tolerance community, so I need a few suggestions of how I might get around it.
The concrete forman didn’t notice one of his guys took the stringline off the nail and wrapped it around the stake when they were handing down forms.
Right now I’m having it re-surveyed and if necessary we’ll cut the foundation back 2″ at the corner, unless someone has a better idea.
Never serious, but always right.
Replies
Give me a long enough lever, and a place to stand.....
Or a really big putter <G>
Mike Smith had a job where the proposed addition corner fell across the set back. Simple fix, they kept the walls as layed out, clipped the corner to within the setback. Semi-odd, but a real conversation pc. Ask Mike about it.
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An addition I built on a house years ago I apparently built too high. About a foot too high. that one was simple...I built up the ground.the a-hole inspector who was known as a real hardass was pissed cause he thought he had me.What inspector ever measures the height of a house..geeezzzzz.
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Here in LA, the city's handout on building height specifically says that re-grading to make the limit is prohibited.
-- J.S.
"regrading is prohibited" - I wonder about "PRE grading". I'm building a fence in front of my house, and I my design calls for it to go 8" higher than the six foot limit (under 6' = no extensive, expensive permit process) . If I want to do some creative landscaping prior to ground breaking, no problem there, right? I wonder if an inspector would see things that way.
I'd think that if you did your landscaping well in advance of the fence project, no obvious big hump, had it well compacted and the plants well established, it might pass. Think through how things will drain, you don't want to make a swamp.
-- J.S.
Two years ago I put a spec house 4' into the setback. I measured to the wrong points. We had the footers installed, gravel was down, and the cubes of block were in the hole waiting to be laid.
The president of the homeowners' association, a builder himself, called me and told me I was too close. He could have called a little earlier, but anyway.
Scratched my head for a couple days. Since it was a spec. I tried to redo the plan to fit on that foundation minus the front 4'. Or do minor changes. Couldn't make anything look decent so we moved it all back four feet SIX inches.
Somehow I made money on the job!! Guess how many times I double check my layout before the shovel ever touches the dirt now. It put my stomach in knots just thinking about this to write it.
Yea, thats an ugly one. LOL.
The neighbor won't sell 2" eh?
Joking....not much help I guess. I have to say I agree with the other posters
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
A lot depends on if it's the Right of Way (ROW) side, or an easement. Check with your inspector, and they may grant a variance for an easement. The ROW might be a little more difficult, as they would have to re-write the physical description in the field notes to include the 2". Checkwith your city/county engineer or chief surveyor. I've seen it done many, many times with only a small fee.
Well, thanks for the input.
Had it resurveyed, wink, which took out about 1 1/2", the concrete contractor's comin out this AM and shave the corner and wall the other 1/2" to below grade. The one wall is a 2'-0 to an offset, so it's turned out not as bad as it could have been. Whew!
As they say, you couldn't have driven a lightly greased 4d finishing nail with a sledge up my hinie yesterday.
Thanks again.
Never serious, but always right.
Course, you coulda just accidentally dropped a 12 lb hammer a couple times in back of the pins so they accidentally moved an inch out.....
I'm not a GC, but it sounds like to me that (IMHO) the next time you build a spec house on that tight of a lot, I would consider having a Registered Profeddional Land Surveyor (RPLS) verify the property lines and pins, and stake the set-back, and the the adjacent building corners.
I've seen a lot of corners get moved due to PUE and fence construction, and if that's what you're basing the pad for a 600K house on, it better be right. I'd suggest that after you get the site plan, you take it to a RPLS and have him verify (on the ground) that these corners are good. The surveyor can set up a coordinate system on the entire site plan so he can stake it from one set-up, and set some reference points to use in the as-built, or if the corners are destroyed.
I'm sure you have good employees that know what they're doing. But, in this case, it's CYOA. An RPLS will be liscensed and bonded so as to remove that liability from you as much as possible.
It's not a spec home and all the survey work was done and setbacks marked. The concrete crew made an uncharacteristic faupaw, misalingned the corner and now we're livin with it. However, in their defense, I wasn't there for the pour. I may not have rechecked or caught it, but at any rate it was my responsibility. It's contractin' and sh!t like this happen occasionally.I'm just tryin to stay ahead of the alligators now. There's a reservoir of talent and experience here so it's a great place to come for help and advice. I've found that no matter what the problem, question, or request, someone or many here have some sage advice or insight. Most of us have done most of it, but none of us has done it all. This forum and its combined members is about as close as it comes. I spend a lot of time in the Tavern section where you won't learn much, including from me, however, in the other sections of this forum there are some real lessons to be learned. For a guy that's operating on his own, like myself, this forum has been an absolute gold mine of helpful and thoughtful information. You have the full spectrum of talent, experience, and geographic location. Kind of Construction U.Next to "my babies arms" this is a great place to be.Never serious, but always right.
That was a very nice thing to say.
Tim
Well I believe it's true. I must learn something on this forum every time I visit, with the exception of the Tavern. I know it's made me a better contractor and the expertise, experience, and advice you find or can request here is simply not available anywhere else, no matter how wide your local circle of information, experience, or education is. It's great to be able to access 100's rather than a few score for thoughtful practical advice or solutions.Never serious, but always right.
However, in their defense, I wasn't there for the pour. I may not have rechecked or caught it, but at any rate it was my responsibility
Why would you have to be there to double check their work. Are they subs or untrained employees?
If they are subs, just hold a generous amount until you clear all the legal hurdles, or let them tear it out and put it where they contracted to put it.
Frank and I want to know why we always pay for our mistakes, then everyone always wants us to pay for their mistakes too?!!! This sounds like the same mentality. This is the concrete guy's mistake!
blue
I've used them for sometime and until now they've been error free. Although I doubted it, I was hoping to find an alternate (painless) solution here on the forum. It didn't happen this time. We can cut the face off 2" of a 2'-0 wall to grade and pass. They are going to do that, at their expense, no questions asked. So, I'm satisfied.We all, or at least I, make some kind of mistake, mis-interpretation, or have a brain fart several times a year. Almost all are easily correctable, of coarse this time it was concrete, which is a little less forgiving. And believe me, I do expect the offender to correct any mistake at their expense.I wasn't making an excuse for the concrete contractor, and he didn't ask for one, but it's my name on the sign and I'm ultimately responsible.Of coarse being a true contractor, I always tell everyone it's someone else's fault. It's great to be king, unless you have to pay.Never serious, but always right.
good post.
You are going to have to speak to the inspector, real nice. But it may not make a difference. Had one about 25 years ago in NYC where the form spread in a corner, toward the outside about an inch. Not allowable. Get out the pointed chisel and the two pound sledge and start chipping.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Just to play devil's advocate:
Don't understand why some architects/builders go right to the setback/easement/ROW/property line. Always try to leave 6" or so myself for the very reason that sh*t happens. Is it really that necessary that a building has to meet some invisible line that nobody will ever notice anyway?
I agree. In fact because of this tight fit I had allowed (stolen) an extra inch. Additionally I had checked the inplace form distance the night before the pour. Unfortunately, I was meeting with this owner at his office about the window package the next morning and missed the pour. Didn't realize or to my own determent didn't recheck that the corner had been moved a little to accommodate the misaligned setback stringline. Ah contracting, ain't it great?This home was pushed to the setbackline limit to accommodate some large existing oaks, however, as you observed it creates the un-unnecessary, in my opinion, potential for disaster. The floor plan is generous, so 3" 4" could have easily been taken out to accommodate a more generous tolerance, but of course no, we want all we can get. It's a $650 K lot.However, in the end, the error was my responsibility or fault, I was just seeking some input to try to mitigate my exposure. Actually it's turned out better than I expected.Thanks to all again. Never serious, but always right.
This home was pushed to the setbackline limit to accommodate
Which is what happens, sometimes.
Now, if it were me, I might wander down to Development Services at City Hall and collect the Variance Request forms. I'd get them entirely filled out now (the better to remember the 'why' "Preserve Trees of historic and beatific character to the benefit of the environment and community"). These would go in the big envelope with all the appliance warranties, etc.
That way, come down the line, a different surveyor reads from "the other side" of the I.R. and puts the structure over the line, there's a nice "out" ("musta never bin filed before, huh?").
If it were my own house, I'd file the Variance request no matter what (no filing fee in my town; only expense would be the cost of printing the documents). But even if it were $200 or $300 to file, that's still cheap 'insurance' to get. Especially if you can get the City's imprimatur that 1/2" or 1" is too negligible to require a variance--which could be good-as-gold off in the future, or for some future owner.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Good point. However, a variance in Oak Brook takes about 18 months. But in another community very good advice.Never serious, but always right.
"If it were my own house, I'd file the Variance request no matter what (no filing fee in my town; only expense would be the cost of printing the documents)"Here, in good old Columbus oh aich, a variance is about $1400.00. With no guarantee that you'll be approved. Used to be $750.00 until they raised it recently. What happens when you try to make basic city services self-sufficient.
a variance is about $1400.00. With no guarantee that you'll be approved.
Well, yeah, it can be steep to file. But, how much to move the house back 6"?
Now, we're back to have all the forms filled in, just not submitted. HO, new owner, somebody can say "hey I found these, will they help?" at least. Still a bite, but cheaper than interviewing house movers (or having to "eat" a less-saleable house, too).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The term set back refers to distance from a structure to property line. Set back issues seem to come up whenever a home owner wants to add a garage. Frequently there's not enough room.Interestly, a detached garage is view differently than an attached garage regarding set back distance.My understanding is the primary reason for setbacks is to insure that the utility company to have access to the power lines, sewer, etc.Agree?
"My understanding is the primary reason for setbacks is to insure that the utility company to have access to the power lines, sewer, etc."
That may be the primary reason, but definitely not the only reason.
My part of town is denity restricted meaning only 1 house to 10 acres, however the front setback is 300' & the side setbacks are 25'
They certainly don't need 300' to access utilities. I think the primary reason here is to keep the area looking like farmland.
Then again, if the setback is 300' I doubt they would care about 2"
I sometimes get these confused, but from what I understand (anybody else, feel free to correct me):Right of Way: centered on a street, allows for public services and utilities.Easement: primarily for utilities running across properties and also along streets and roads.Setback: minimum distance a structure needs to be from a property line. More of a zoning issue, not for utilities. Provides for a minimum distance to allow for side yards, rear yards, front yards, etc., so that buildings are not right next to each other, are fire hazards to other buildings, and a certain amount of open space is ensured for maintaining a certain neighborhood spatial continuity.
Edited 11/16/2005 1:47 pm ET by draftguy
You're close to right. ROW is the total area owned by the city/county/state/feds, for the construction, maintainance, and utility clearance of a roadway. The roadway may wander anywhere within the ROW the engineers want it to. Temporary, or construction easements are used for a fixed amount of time, and revert to the parent tract when construction is finished. Utility easements may be granted within a ROW for special considerations due to surrounding developments.
Easements and setbacks are usually a community response to a particular need. In Austin Texas where I did most of my surveying, the older parts of town (1836-1910) had 20' alleys in back of all of the residential lots. These were provided so manure wagons could pick up the crap in the back of the lots where the livestock was kept. Now, they're quaint little "lanes" for the gentrified homeowners to walk their rat dogs...
Setback: minimum distance a structure needs to be from a property line. More of a zoning issue, not for utilities
Correct. Only exception being those AHJ that occasionally define from back-of-curb rather than P.L.
I think P.L. is better legislation ans being more uniform, but they don't ask me to draft it, either . . . <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
is the primary reason for setbacks is to insure that the utility company to have access
That's usually the reason given for side & rear setbacks, it to get emergency equipment in. Given that most place you need to send the FD, are in utility easements, and both are typically blocked by fencing & landscaping, the point could be argued.
Front setbacks have always been extolled as a way to create uniform fornt yards. That presumes that the front setback is where the house front will be, though, too. (It gets into whether the front porches are restricted under the setback or not, which gets mired i ndefinitions and changing zoning worm cans.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Russ, Im gonna give you a serious answer. This could be big . Might not be, but you need to address it with the building inspector and planning and zonning if you want to keep it . Ive been both.
The problem is a little more serious than 2 inches Im afraid becuase we count hangovers. Yup. So it could be a much as 30 inches . You building inspector will line that out for you . If its a couple of inches in question you may get a variance from plannning and zonning the next time they meet . If you dont have such it will be the city council. Often you can hurry it up by calling from a list of people who will decide the out come . Dont try to sell it just act sorry and it was an honest mistake . 9 times from 10 they will give up to a foot pretty easily. If you were on such a board and it didnt effect a close neigbor , what would you vote? Dont let what someone said scare ya because normally they are good straight people wanting to help unless somone has pizzed in their wheaties.
Tim
Thanks, I'll be giving it a try.Never serious, but always right.
I agree with Tim...it's not the footer...it's any part of the structure, including trim and overhangs. Footer usually works for me be/c the typical dome curves in from the footer. But for most houses, the roof line or a bay window can cause ya big problems.
Hat in hand ...
happy?
I wonder if I'm the only one that has read this thread and shakes my head about how utterly rediculous this all is?
I don't believe we are talking about a property line here, just a setback. How stupid is it that you have to buy and own the setback, but can't encroach it by 2". I know the inch/mile analogy, and I realize you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere....but around these NE Ohio parts, you can walk in and get a 1% variance on the spot, no charge. Go beyond the 1% and you must file and go through the process...all for the reasonable sum of $150.
The fees being charged for permits and variences here are nuts too.
It's time to throw out all the bums and cheats, clean the slate and start over.
The fees being charged for permits and variences here are nuts too.
That's an entirely different thread (or has been several already <g>).
Besides the fees aren't just nuts "there," either. Near as I can tell, they're nuts everywhere, just in different proportions, and for differing purposes/reasons/definitions.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
My advise, when working on the setback line: get the original surveyor to set the building points...at least the front building line. This service for us has been 1/2 or less of the cost for the original survey.
This is especially good when building a home with off 90 lot lines or in a cul-de-sac with off 90 lot lines and radius setback lines.
This is a pie shaped lot, and the set backs were set by the surveyor. But the concrete contractor inadvertently move the set back point just before the pour, mistakenly adjusted the forms at the corner, wallah, problem.
Never serious, but always right.