Hi guys – I’m new here, please don’t bite. I’m from Over The Fence, but this is something I can’t seem to fix with gardening.
We built this house 13 years ago and, about a month ago, we started getting a sewage smell from our shower when we run it. Ick. DH has tried snaking out the drain, pouring bleach, pouring down boiling water, and using Drain-O. I gave him the ultimatum of getting it fixed by tonight or shelling out for a plumber tomorrow. I just took my evening shower and it ain’t fixed. Nothing worse than working outside all day, getting in the shower and standing in what smells like an overflowing septic field. Can we fix this without a plumber?
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
Replies
check the vent stack that passes thru the roof for a nest or other debris. That could be a cause.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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There are two possible causes. Either no trap was installed when you put in the shower, or the trap is not holding water.
If there is a trap and it's not holding water, then either the trap has a leak, which would manifest itself by a wet spot or stain underneath the trap, or the vent is not working properly.
If the vent is not working properly, it was not installed correctly, or it's plugged. Sometimes animals will nest inside the vent, blocking it from working. Or it could be something very unusual such as something falling down into the vent.
Snaking and chemicals will not make a trap that's failing to hold water to start holding it, so that's why they did not work. By the way, one should never put more than one chemical in a drain. There are a number of combinations that can react violently or produce poisonous gas.
You can check the vent by looking down into it with a flashlight after sundown. You should also be able to see water in the trap. Other than that, I can't think of much else you could do on your own.
Nothing I can add to your advice which very comprehensively covered everything - except that in some areas, like here, vent stacks will clog from the build up of pine needles in about a decade.
Ever have the tank pumped? Is the shower closest to the main waste line going
out to the tank? If the other simple suggestions don't turn up antying, you'll be
pumping soon.
-d
Hi guys - I'm new here, please don't bite.
Welcome to BT!.
We growl occasionally and show our teeth, but we seldom gnaw on newbies.
Of course there is the occasional snipe hunt proposal so don't go crawling down any manholes without getting a second opinion.
Is the shower drain/trap visible from below? Basement or crawlspace?
Edit: In case you're not familiar with vents, they are open ended vertical pipes which connect with drains and go out through the roof. They keep vacuums from forming in drain pipes, inhibiting proper flow, and vent sewage fumes out of the house.
Edited 7/24/2009 3:01 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Since DH is the one having to act on any advice, I'm not worried about swipe hunts. Trained as an engineer (but working as a pilot - almost as bad), if he can't spot a snipe hunt, he deserves to get rooked.Just to clarify, he hasn't put any combinations of chemicals down the drain. The bleach, followed by boiling water (along with snaking) was recommended on another site. When that didn't work, he tried the Drain-O (probably three weeks later).We have a tall crawl space and there isn't any leaking. I think y'all are probably right about the vent (though I don't think he knows where it is and I know I don't). It doesn't smell all the time, only when the water has been running for a couple of minutes. This is a downstairs shower in a two-story. I don't recall seeing anything on the roof that looks like a vent from anything but the attic vents. If we find it, what's the best way to check it or clean it out?JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
The vent usually runs up through the nearest wall to the drain. If the shower drain is right in the middle, the vent usually runs up the same wall that the shower valve is on. In the case of a two-story, it will be routed up the wall that has another wall directly upstairs from it so the pipe can pass through the upstairs wall and then through the attic. Normally it will run straight up through the roof, but sometimes the roof penetration has to be offset some distance from where the pipe passes up through the wall.Have DH look on the roof above the shower wall for a pipe about 1 1/2" to 2" in diameter sticking up maybe as much as a foot above the shingles. There will probably be several such vents scattered about the roof for bathrooms, kitchen, laundry, wherever there is a drain.Fan vents and the vent for boiler or furnace or water heater will be larger and will have some sort of rain cap to keep water from getting in. Plumbing vents generally have no cap because no one cares if some water gets into the drain system.A snake will pass down the vent quite easily
BruceT
We have a gas water heater and it's vented right outside the house, on the side, literally, right where the heater is. This may be bad - I really don't think there are any vents on the roof - just the attic vents. Even if it is, it's a really high pitched roof, way, way on up there. It's exciting just to get the gutters cleaned out. I live in a county that's REALLY big into codes (at least for TN), so if we're supposed to have them, I can't see them just being left off. However, we did have a sink that simply drained down into the crawlspace - wasn't hook up under the sink. So THAT missed inspection. Oh dear.JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
If your house is somewhat newer, I've seen some of the fancier builders cluster their vents (easier in a highly pitched roof) so only one or two actually come thru the roof. Which means it could be farther away than directly overhead. And, they try to hide the vents - between a cricketed chimney and roofline, with some decorative top, etc.
As a bit of further explanation, Builders, plumbers, etc, refer to this as the "plumbing stack vent." Meaning there's the equivalant of a vertical pipe that **** flows downhill into. At the bottom of the stack is a near horizontal line carrying the waste away. At the top of the stack is the vent (which is simply an extension of the vertical pipe) being described.
Some craftsmen, such as Sphere, will make cute copper sleeves to slip over such vents to pretty them up when a roof in being redone.
We located the vent stacks, all both of them (we have 3 full baths and one half bath). Dh is going to cut into them and snake them from both directions, then repair them. Since he can't get on the roof, hopefully this will work.JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
I was gonna suggest a fly over to spot the stacks..LOL
Or Google Images and zoom in on your roof, you have to have a stack up there.
Cutting and fixing is one way, but I'd just scale the roof and have at it, but being a non Navy pilot , I can see his reluctance. Being afraid of hieghts is normal for them "other guys"..(G)
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Edited 7/24/2009 1:29 pm ET by Sphere
Yep, he's afraid of heights. At least I'm not an inch shorter after one of his landings. : - P""JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
I'll throw one other thing out, a bit of a tangent, but what the heck...Is it a septic smell or sulphur rotten egg smell?If sulphur, it could be bacteria in the hot water tank. Try running cold water only in the shower, do you get the odor? Then try just hot water. If you think it might be bacteria, check the anode rod in the hot water heater too. Obviously before you put a wrench on the anode rod, turn off the heater, let cool, and release and pressure in the system.Again, most people can distinguish a sulphur versus septic smell. But you husband, being a pilot? Because of that handicap I figured I'd toss that idea out and use small words just for him.
Mongo is correct, I bad anode rod is rotten egg smell!!!!!!
Nasty!
I am not the plumber but the plumber's son!!!
If it were the hot water tank, wouldn't we get the sewer smell anytime we used hot water anywhere in the house (not just the shower)?JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
Since the shower sprays the hot water out, you'll notice the odor there most strongly -- more exposure to the air. And oddly the odor often isn't noticed as much while IN the shower, but a little later, after the humidity level drops a bit.But it's a different odor from sewer odor, easily distinguished by someone familiar with both.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
It's sewer smell. Had bad eggs in the fridge once. Scrubbed the whole darn fridge down, thinking it was bad chicken smell. When it that didn't do it, I found the eggs. This smells like an overflowing septic field. Good to know one more thing can go wrong, though!JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
I like the advice to check the trap(s) in the area, sometimes a plumber can forget to glue a fitting, (it sometimes happens because plumbers like to dry fit things first, sometimes), next maybe check traps with a flashlight to see if they hold water.If you do call a plumber, ask them to "smoke" your sewer system,(I hope you have a cleanout outside your house, they can install one, but could be expensive if they have to do much). this will show all leaks and doesn't leave a permanent odor in the house either. I'm trying to give ya some Ideas to work with.And I wonder if FatRoman can see his toes? :-)
DH worked on the vents this afternoon and chicken was in the oven when I took my shower, so I couldn't tell if it was fixed. Being super-sensitive to the shower smell by now, the food smell was a little disturbing.We're not on the fancy city water/sewer system, just a giant, two-tank septic system. County codes for a house this size, even there's only three of us here.JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
"even there's only three of us here."You, your husband, and the baptist cat ?..I'm not worried, I'm curious...You are always welcome at Quittintime
If you can't baptize something, it doesn't count, right?Ok, so three of us who use the "facilities."JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
"We're not on the fancy city water/sewer system, just a giant, two-tank septic system"
Sorry, your house plumbing doesn't act different on a private home sewer treatment system, than it would if it was pouring into an open ditch, or city sewer! :-)
Traps can still suffer the same problems either way. And the whole system can still be smoke tested. Putting a cleanout in the line just outside the house, can be a hassle, but it can save you big $$$ down the road. Plus a cleanout makes it easy to route out the sewer line both ways.
I'm not preaching, it's just that I've been called to many similar problems, and I've learned to throw a couple of smoke bombs up the line towards the house and use an idling leaf blower to push the smoke through the lines. Capping vents may be helpful as well.
Alright, I'm done.
I thought you might've been talking about checking for probs between the house and (city) sewer line since I know how the septic is set up. It leaves the house a few feet, takes a 90* turn, several more feet, there's a smallish box where it's pumped out, several more feet of pipe, then one big tank connected with the other big pump, then pumped up to the septic field.Capping the vents is a good idea. Too bad this issue didn't come up before last Dec. when we put a new roof on. If we ever have to have anyone up there again, that'll be on the list. Why don't they do that in the first place?JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
Hmmmm...the plot thickens. Did this smell issue begin after the new roof went on?
Not saying you may have had a bad crew, but I've seen a roofer drop an empty Pepsi can down a stack once.
And no you don't "cap" the vents or plug them except for the initial plumbing inspection where the Drain, waste and vent sys. may be pressurized for testing, or filled with water, to observe leakage. After that they need to be OPEN to breathe.
As a roofer, I often find test plugs left in the vents, some on homes that are many years old, no one ever knew why the plumbing was sluggish, or it shared an open vent and had little ill effect.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Ok, I was thinking of a different kind of cap, like having a little roof thing over the opening of the vent, not a cap. I ought to know better. We got a new roof in Dec., but DH cut the vent pipe and snaked it up and down. I'm not convinced he did it right, though. By "right" I mean fully.It's better, but not fixed. I think DH is thinking of trying to put in a new trap. If my shower isn't right tonight, it'll be a plumber tomorrow.To add insult to injury, Dh decided to cut some limbs off the walnut that's in the middle of the septic field (thanks, builders). He managed to drop one perfectly so that it busted a pipe in the field. We're just not catching a break lately.JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
We're just not catching a break lately.
Good luck with the plumber. If nothing else, you've learned enough by coming here to know if the guy is BSing.
If it's 'a little better', that would make me think that vent blockage was the most likely culprit, from the beginning.You say you don't think he got it fully snaked. It's possible that he cleared a bit of the blockage, and just pushed the rest, farther in.Before you do anything else, I'd be finding ways to snake that from below, and make sure you have it fully snaked in both directions.BTW: You're lucky your cat is Baptist. Imagine trying to circumsize one.....I'm not worried, I'm curious...You are always welcome at Quittintime
Before you go cutting the vent stacks to snake them, have you exhausted all other possibilities? Sometimes, smelly stuf sticks to the inside of the drain lines (beyond the trap) and is only noticeable when water is running through the trap. I think it's because while the water is running, the trap isn't 100% effective. I know that seems unlikely, but it happens in my own house and I know the vent is fine.
Using drain cleaners, bleach, etc. only seems to help for a very short time. Then the smell returns. The next thing I'm going to try is removing the trap and snaking the drain with a rag or brush. Maybe you should consider that too before attacking the vents.
One question consider: Has anyone hung any pictures recently?Sometimes, during the hanging of pictures and other such activities a hole gets drilled in the vent pipe.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Do you hang you pictures on a landscape timber spike????
Run water down all of the fixtures, if you have inaquite venting chances are you will have one of the drains gurgle or gasp for air. Generally the pressure of the water in the pipes from the upstairs fixtures will push air threw the trap of the lowest trap. STINK!
Possibly the system was never plumbed correctly when first installed!!
maybe one of the fixtures run off one of those ventless things that malfuntioned.
Sometimes you drill a hole for an anchor.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Dan,
I am just being a smart arsee!!!
That isn't a bad idea. We don't use the bath upstairs ever. Not that I think it's an issue since it's on the other end of the house, but it's a good idea to run water through it to keep the trap full. I hadn't thought about that at all.JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
Hung pictures lately? Nobody has dusted in three years, why would we hang pictures?Joke - it's a JOKE!JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
Nothing wrong with a side vent on the water heater.As Pete says, the other vents may be hidden. My dad designed the house I grew up in with a false chimney near the peak inside of which all of the stack vents were hidden so the roof itself would not be cluttered with projections.BruceT
It's already been posted earlier but you are looking for a pipe sticking out of the roof, right? When everyone is saying "vent" what they really mean in plain English is "pipe." A plumbing vent doesn't look anything like the vent you would have for a water heater. It's just a pipe.
Trained as an engineer (but working as a pilot - almost as bad), if he can't spot a snipe hunt, he deserves to get rooked.
You know, of course, that one of the three most dangerous things in the world is an airline pilot and his Craftsman tool set. The other two are a doctor flying his Bonanza and three rednecks in a pulpwood truck.
Peter
Maule MX7-180A
Hahahahahaha!!! I knew the Dr. thing (the original saying was "a dr. in a V-tailed Bonanza" but they're not as popular as they used to be). Can't wait to show DH the pilot one!JeanaNever try to baptize a cat.
I've got a basement shower with what I suspect is no trap. Created a lovely stench across the basement until I installed one of these. No matter what else I do around here, DW still thinks this was my crowning moment of glory.http://www.trapguard.com/'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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I talked to an old plumber recently about sewer smells and how we weren't getting any smells EVEN THOUGH WE HAD REMOVED TOILETS, SINKS, ETC AND EVERYTHING WAS OPEN
He said you don't get any smell until you start running water into the line
This stirs things up
Then you get that terrible smell
As Sphere pointed out, the vent could be clogged and each time another fixture drains or is flushed it pulls on trap fluids until a air gap opens to allow gas to infiltrate the shower space
Where is the smell coming from? You could have a pipe that's become disconnected in the wall, an air leak in the pipes under the sink, etc.
The other possibility to consider is that it could be a leak in the shower, spilling out onto the plywood underlayment of the bathroom without causing any visible leaking when viewed from below. (This will cause a musty odor, vs a pure "sewer" smell, but they can be hard to tell apart.)
Plumbing supply house - Product call WHAM, worked for me, miracle results. Assuming you have a septic system.