I believe that this is my third thread on these two amazing products.
I recently saw a cordless copper pipe cutter by Milwaukee. Very sweet and fast. Then I realized that this thing is already obsolete, right out of the gate. The only time I work with copper pipe is when I am cutting it out to replace it with Pex.
On my current project, the house main does not completely shut off the water. I have never worked on a house where the main actually does completely shut off the water. In the past, the thought of soldering with a drip sent chills down my spine, as I knew I would be in for a long frustrating afternoon.
With Sharkbite fittings, I cut and then it is “plug and play”. Problem solved in seconds. They accept pex, copper and cpvc.
I just have to figure out what to do with all my copper pipe and fittings.
Sharkbite fittings cost on average about $5 a piece. This is cheap when compared to the time it takes to prepare and solder copper.
Replies
I've been using the Sharkbite fittings on my Home
projects.Makes plumbing a breeze but I'm not bragging
until I see them perform for a decade or so.
Many places don't allow PEX (for example, San Francisco- no plastic pipe of any kind).
Interesting, I can't think of a place that I'd like to have semi rigid piping more than there.
Still not sure about any overwhelming bennies of pex across the board. Got the tools. Use it when it makes sence.
Certain situations - Sharkbites are the BEST.
Sharkbite fittings cost on average about $5 a piece. This is cheap when compared to the time it takes to prepare and solder copper.
They cost $10 here. But even at $5, they're not cheap when compared to the time it takes to sweat a copper joint.
It takes about 30 seconds to sweat a half-inch joint once the pipefitting is done (and you gotta do the pipefitting with Pex and Sharkbites, too). At my hourly rate, 30 secs comes out to about $0.33. Plus the cost of the fitting itself ($0.11 to $0.89), the MAPP gas, the Goldcrest, and the solder, I figure each joint costs the client a max of $1.75.
Sure, I'll use a Sharkbite when it makes sense--tying in new copper to an existing PEX installation. But it's definitely a luxury item. I can't imagine doing a whole system with them.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Waaay to expensive to do a whole house or system.
In remodelling - temp cap off some lines, remove an outside spigot, tie in a new branch...
Priceless.
Coupla weeks ago, getting rid of an existing ext spigot. 1/2" copper feed. Put a 1/2" shark bite cap and a mini cutter in my pocket, shut off water, go into crawl. Deep breath, cut , cap. Didn't even drain the line.
Done - priceless.
Interesting breakdown. With Pex , joints are kept to a minimum in comparison to copper. On a run of copper you may have 10 joints, where you have to cut each piece of pipe as well as deal with the fittings. On similar run of pex you may encounter one, maybe two joints at most. Next you don't have a whole soldering set up to deal with, and then it is all plug and play, which only takes seconds.The only drawback so far is that the stores are still gearing up their selection of Shark Bite fittings.
>>The only drawback so far is that the stores are still gearing up their selection of Shark Bite fittings.<<That and it's hard to keep the run of pex looking good.Steve
i would guess soon you will see most pex manifolds made with shark bite type fittings... same with the copper stub-outs... it will be a no tool deal... cept a knife to cut it...
most big box stores are going about 80% shark bite... plumbers will be cry'n "now anyone can do my job"
p
Good plumbers won't worry. There's plenty of ways for DIYs' to mess up. Even with pex and shark bites. Either they will mess it up or won't want to get dirty.
I used a sharkbite recently on a repair job and it was easy and simple. Even for someone who hates to repair plumbing, like me.
I'm really glad someone invented the sharkbite.
On my current project, the house main does not completely shut off the water. I have never worked on a house where the main actually does completely shut off the water. In the past, the thought of soldering with a drip sent chills down my spine,
Ditto.
I just did a job where some tweaker(s) stole the copper water line right off the back of the building...under pressure....riiiiight.
Anyway, of course the city water valve in the box doesn't completely shut off and I'm not looking forward to sweating copper in a trickling pipe 1' down in the mud.
Sharkbite to the rescue!
Sharkbite¯ concept is not that new.
I have used a similar style fittings on drinking fountains, & instahots since the late 80's.
Here's the kicker for those of you that think these things are the best thing since sliced bread & burry them in walls, floors, & ceilings.
They use a rubber "O" ring to make the seal, ever see what water does to rubber?
How many times have you replaced the flapper in your toilet cause it was warped & falling apart.
The rubber "O" ring will eventually fail, & if the fitting is concealed how much will it cost to fix the damage in the name of cutting corners during the install?
The cast iron water mains buried under the streets are sealed with rubber gaskets.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Yup, & the eventualy fail too. CI is being phased out & replaced with ductile, but the same MJ's are on those & they fail over a period of time.
Also 1.5" of rubber has a bit longer life than rubber that is 1/16" thick.
...and how about the rubber gasket in the crimp-on systems, such as the Ridgid?
That whole concept makes me wonder how long these things are going to last. I see so much of this on boiler piping jobs where the water is 180*.
At least you can remove the Sharkbites if you have to, but the Ridgid is crimped on and can't be removed without cutting the whole area apart.
What do you think about the pex fittings where you just expand the pex and a collar and you have thirty seconds to put the fitting in and then the memory of the pex shrinks it back around the fitting? No O-rings. Do you think the pex will fatigue eventually and loosen up?Steve
I know he likes the Wirsbo/Uponor ones you are talking about, since he turned me on to them.And if they have a known failure rate, well, I don't want to hear about it now that they are in place :)'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Relax, Uponor has been around the longest. The failure came in the early 90's.
& that failure was chemicals being introduced into the potable supply, not a pipe failure ;-)
What I really like is that as a cabinetmaker who also installs what I build, I don't have to bring out the soldering torch! My insurance doesn't cover me if I burn down someones house doing plumbing. Sharkbites makes caps which are removable after sink base is in, and no more burnt finishes when plumber forgets to shield his torch (had to replace cabinet back once, real problem after everything's in place)
davew
As an expert in the art of soldering pipe I would go nuts if I had to solder every angle stop on under a sink.
I have rarely seen a soldered angle stop, & never did I have a job that spec'd them to be used.
We use on our lower bid jobs an angle stop that has the "O" ring & SS retention ring like Sharkbite. They are a one piece kinda ugly fitting, but I will admit they do work & have seen them hold up to 260 psi without failing----- was a bit scary though.
Eventually yes, eventually everything fails.
However polyethylene does out last rubber.
I do prefer the Uponor expanding system over the other brands for a few reasons & one is that the pipe is expanded around the fitting which has less restriction than a fitting that has a smaller ID than the pipe.
That's the Uponor system. I love it. Easier to make connections in tight quarters. And it's practically foolproof.
No, I don't think the PEX will loosen up with time.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I have to say the warranty doesn't inspire confidence.
Edited 12/9/2008 6:51 pm ET by Henley
and how about the rubber gasket in the crimp-on systems, such as the Ridgid?
That's Propress¯ & we use it quite a bit, I have the same concerns about those as well.
You are also correct about the removal part, Propress is a one time deal. If they freeze they will usually push the fittings off the pipe. That creates a repair nightmare.
We use a lot of Victaulic on heating systems that relies on a rubber gasket, but like ductile MJ's the rubber is quite thick so that does give it more longevity.
hey in response to all the skeptics re: the shark bite fittings:
(one of the great things about this site is that you learn so much from all the give and take)
"Dear Pete,
Thank you for your email and your interest in SharkBite
Fittings. I am going to try to answer your questions as quick and
direct as possible in an effort not to confuse issues as your internet
forum has stated to do.
* Plumbing codes require all products to be "Third-Party Listed".
This means an independent agency tests the product to the appropriate
Code and Standard, and also inspects the manufacturing location annually
to see that the plant is following Quality Assurance procedures.
Attached you will find our listing certificate from IAPMO. You can find
this on their website as well.
* Plumbing codes vary across the country, but none strictly
prohibit the use of these fittings.
* Our fittings are suited for domestic plumbing and heating
applications and are warranted against defects for 30 years.
* The cost effectiveness of these fittings is directly related to
how much your labor rate is and how much you will have to invest in
tools to install PEX with the other systems. (Even a DIY'ers time is
worth something).
If you read and follow our installations instructions (go to
http://www.cashacme.com for a copy), you should have no problems using our
fittings in your application. Bill Chapman"
It's that 30 year part I'm not comfortable with. Plus, if understand the warranty correctly they are only
liable for the cost of the material.
I'll learn ya how to sweat copper if you really want ;-)
Always grateful of good instruction;) Coming into plumbing this late in the game, I'd wager
copper isn't a major concern for future Chuck.