Hello folks,
I’m looking for some design feedback. I’m in the midst of framing a house (I am not the framer) and have a seven inch (rough not finished) sweep for the sidewall shingles. Seven inches is defined from the edge of the plate to the edge of the sheathing. I will be veneering the top of the foundation and put in a six inch block shelf. Originally thought I would keep the veneer to about six inches and have the sweep come out about 8 (seven plus two 3/8″ shingles plus a little for some trimboard nailed on an angle to the underside of the sweep) for a two inch “setback” from shingles to the stone (veneered) foundation.
I do not intent to put up any crown on the bottom of the shingles to lay back to the veneer. My design guestion is – what do most do for a “setback” – ie distance from edge of shingles to the edge of the veneer.
Thanks for the help.
Devin
Replies
Bump
thanks
No problem. I'm still hoping someone will jump in who can answer this question.
The man who backbites an absent friend, nay, who does not stand up for him when another blames him, the man who angles for bursts of laughter and for the repute of a wit, who can invent what he never saw, who cannot keep a secret - that man is black at heart: mark and avoid him. [Cicero, 106 BC - 43 BC]
I think I understand your question. You are going to have a shingle flare on your wall above a lower section of masonry, and you are asking how to trim out the bottom edge of the flare?
On my house there is a shingle flare but no masonry. I brought the face of the sheathing out flush with the face of the stemwall. The shingles are proud about 3/4" right at the bottom. No trim there, just the shingles slightly proud and then the concrete starts.
Is this what you're talking about?
View Image
Edited 12/20/2006 8:05 pm by Stuart
Thanks, i WAS HAVING A HARD TIME VISUALIZING FROM HIS DESCRIPTION. tHAT BARE BOTTOM IS WHAT i'VE ALWAYS DONE TOO
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In the picture above, the sheathing is nailed flat to the studs, and then there's a horizontal piece of 2x material nailed along the bottom, with a bevel cut on the outer edge. The shingles were then nailed over the top of that, so there's a sort of triangular open space hidden between the shingles, the sheathing and that piece of 2x as the shingles go up the wall.
Those shingles are 93 years old, by the way, and they're still in pretty good shape.
Exactly!
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Sorry I was not clearer - sometimes its hard to explain and I do not have drawing tools.
I'm ok building the sweep - rip some 2x's from nothing to 6 1/2 inches and sheath - good to go - what I am wondering is the "setback" from the edge of the shingled sweep to the finished foundation -whether masonry or veneer really doesn't matter. In my neck of the woods see alot of folks handle this with crown, ie the projection of the crown is the setback from the edge of the sweep to the finished foundation. I sometimes think the crown is too "finished" for this detail and wonder how they would have handled it in the day. I have seen it done this way on old buildings - there's a church with crown that has a 5" setback from edge of shingle to stone foundation but that may be more of an exception...anyway I digress...so we have the sweep - it's proud of the foundation - my question boils down to how proud and do most folks use the crown or do they trim the underside of the sweep and call it a day. I am hoping this makes sense. In my example, I have a seven inch sweep (on the rough) and six inch veneer shelf - leaving me a "setback" (could read as projection) of about two inches - so sweep is two inches proud of veneered foundation - I am wondering when other folks build this detail what is the "projection" - part of me says that two inches is not enough for a shadow line to highlight the sweep.
Thanks again.
I really enjoy reading this forum in the evenings and I appreciate all the insights.
Devin
Is there a reason you have to / want to shim out the bottom of the sheathing itself? Can't it just get nailed flat to the studs and then flare out the bottom few courses of shingles like I described how they did it on my house? It seems like it would be simpler. The shingles sort of automatically form the sweep as they're nailed to the house, so you don't have to do anything special.
If you were to lay on the ground and look up at the bottom edge of my shingles, you'd just see a flat piece of 2x run horizontally along the house, with the bottom edge of the shingles overhanging by a half inch or so. It's dark and cold out, othewise I'd run outside and take a closeup photo or two.
Here's a crude diagram that hopefully shows what I'm talking about.
View ImageEdited to add: Now that I look at it, this diagram isn't correct - I left out the floor joists and rim joist, which should be in between the foundation and the stud wall. However, it doesn't really matter since we're talking about what happens on the outside of the sheathing.
Edited 12/20/2006 9:37 pm by Stuart
Edited 12/20/2006 9:45 pm by Stuart
Maybe you missd it, but I thought this had been answered. Myself and two other replies commented that there was no underlying trim, just the bottom of the shingles as shown in photo.I have worked on a couple where the bottom was plain as shown and then a belt skirt was repeated with a white fascia and crown at the second floor level
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It's an interesting detail, but seems like both a PITA and not great for the shingles, water-wise, too boot. (No fun for the downspouts, either) I've always likes water tables....and now you can get them in Azek
Do you see lots of sweeps?
My house has deep soffits so that bottom portion of the shingles is pretty well protected from rain. What rain does fall on them is flung out away from the foundation, so in that respect it helps the house, and as I mentioned they've lasted nearly 100 years this way. It does make the downspouts stand proud of the house at the bottom so that part is a little unusual.
Edited 12/20/2006 9:49 pm by Stuart
The old foundations here were rubble rock so the uneven base needed to be adressed, and we have a lot of the "Shingle style" homesAs far as downspouts, yes - it takes a few extra elbows to wind around the skirt
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I situations like that shown, we don't usually use elboes to get around protrusions, we miter the downspouts and save the el's for drastic offsets.
Mitering is a cleaner look IMO, not so "plumbing' looking, and we can get it closer to the foundation or underground drains and strap it securely. An important part of the job when using copper, the thieves just love stealing the downspouts.
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