Stephen: Seems I’ve seen a post or two discussing shingling from the ridge down. I’ve tried searching & found nothing.
Right now I’m in the process of removing the crappy shingles & the crappy sheathing from that rafter repair job I started talking about last Jan & have concluded that I have to rip shingles off from the top & replace from the bottom. I’m going to have to remove several squares of old stuff & cannot do it all in one day – not exactly a pro at this. I’ve already performed what I call the “Roofer’s Rip Stitch” on some 9 courses of shingles I installed because I didn’t get the tab slots lined up correctly. I also learned a few other things about what I’ve seen real roofers do. Unfortunately the hard way; & on the front of the house. Shoulda done the back first so the learning curve screwups don’t show to the world.
While kneeling, crawling, bending over, cursing the day I took on this project, it struck me that it would eliminate a lot of these mis steps if I T worked top to bottom – keep me from walking around on new shingles.hen I thought through the befuddling haze of a roof hotter than the 7th furnace of Hades that I’d read something about this technique on FHB.
Can you help me out?
The Glass Masterworks
“If it scratches, I etch it!”
Replies
There was an article in FHB some time ago, maybe 3 or 4 years.
If you hold the tape on the ridge and mark every 10 inches down the roof on each end, that gives you the horizontals. Mark 2 vertical lines 6" apart. You don't really shingle from the top down, but move down the roof as far as you can reach and shingle up, then move down and do it again. Easier to do it from the bottom unless its steep.
Here's my situation: I have a major roof repair that runs at least 4 sheets of sheathing down the roof from the ridge. I replaced a complete rafter by cutting a hole in the sheathing about 4 inches either side of the rafter down from the chimney where it was rotted so badly it crumbled till I hit sound wood. So, now I have a hole 8 inches wide & about 12 ft long that must be repaired. The roof is in pretty sad shape in that area, so I am removing the shingles & felt from enough area that I can replace entire sheets of plywood. This is in Hurricane prone So. MS, so I want to protect the integrity of the roof. I've replaced the top two sheets of ply & covered them w/ 30 lb felt. The original job was only done w/ 15 lb felt & it crumbles when you touch it. Since I'm working my way down from the top w/ the decking, I'd like to be able to follow w/ the felt & shingles so I complete the job as I go. It would also allow me to keep the walking on my new shingles top a minimum.As I have read what you have collectively said, it can be done. To make sure I understand, here's what I read (as an electrical engineer w/ a hammer as opposed to a real roofer who knows exactly what he is doing.)1) Replace the sheathing w/ 1/8 in gaps between sheets.
2) Lay a sheet of felt from top, making sure the overlap is the correct direction (upper sheet overlaps lower sheet)
3) Snap chalk lines parallel to ridge at appropriate distances down to make sure all shingles will be parallel to ridge. Or use DW tape.
4) Snap a pair of vertical lines to use to align slots between tabs. Make sure they align w/ old shingles below area where working so it matches when you meet new & old work.
5) Here's where it gets tricky! Figure out where second course down from ridge goes & tack it into place, but high. Now place top course in place & nail in proper location, just above tab slots so that those nails catch the top edge of the second course already tacked in place.
6) Now slide the third course under the second; lift the flap of the first course & place the nails through the second course just above the tab slots so they catch the third course at the top.
7) continue this way down the roof till meeting the old work.
8) Check frequently that your shingles are parallel to ridge. Also, continually check distance to old work so that you can adjust new work so it will match horizontally & vertically.At least I will have old work to left & right where I have to weave in new work to use for alignment.Thanks for the help.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Where is the house at in Southern MS?
Brookhaven, MS. About 50 mi so. of Jackson.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Don,
i have only done the "shingling from the top down" deal a few times--- never because of time/weather constraints---- but because of heat constraints. what we did was tear off all of one side of the roof-----dry it in like normal----- snap ALL our lines----and then shingle down lift by lift.
I would never bother with it on a walkable roof because we can do those with cushions fast enough that we won't tear them up in the heat------- but the ones we did them on were like 12/12 pitch it works nice because all your roof jacks are in place- the whole roof lis lined out--- works very fast-----and there are zero scuff marks just make sure to high nail the bottom course in each lift BTW-- it works fine on 3 tabs--- is more of a pain in the rear on dimensional shingles because of the seal down strip on the BACK of the shingles--- the lowest course in each lift wants to glue fown to the titanium ALSO---- I have never bothered with the drywall tape etc as I do my own layouts and I accomplish the same thing with chalk lines and crayon or sharpiestephen
Don, I did my own house that way because I was working alone and I didn't trust stripping down to the sheathing in one bang. So I stripped off 12 rows of shingles a day and found that was a days work for me. When I got off of the roof I didn't have to worry about it that night or I could even skip a couple of days with no worries. But you sound like you are going to lay every shingle from the top down which is not the way I did it. I would tear off 12 rows of shingles and the old tar paper and where the sheathing was good simply slap on the paper and begin shingling from the course that was at the bottom. I would measure down 60" and lay the first course and thus it would be shingling from the bottom up just like normal till I got to the eleventh [a little nuisance] and 12, a bigger nuisance. I thought it worked pretty good that way and I didn't have to walk on the new stuff either while working or carrying up shingles. A bonus was I knew the slots would come out right because I would be repeating every day the same system. The article in FHB was fresh in my mind at the time but I probably didn't follow it too close, however it gave me the courage to take a shot at it that way.
I think you may be over thinking this project. This is not hard to do, and is very easy with 3 tab shingles. It looks like you have pretty well outlined the process in your list.
You have the other shingles on the roof to use as a guide. Assuming your new shingles are the same size as the old ones, all you have to do is measure off of them.
If you have a 5" exposure, just measure up in increments of 5" and start your first shingle at that measurement. Just tack the very top of the first course to hold it in place and start shingling up the roof as usual. We usually do it in increments of a full run of three tabs at a time. Just make sure you don't put a nail on the bottom shingles that will interfere with sliding the top of the next course under the shingles.
Steps 5, 6 & 7 I think are not quite right the way I am reading the advice.Mark your layout, use existing shingles etc.The first course of shingles you will run will be 30" to 35" down from the ridge and nailed high. The next course will be on top of the first, nailed normally.The 3rd course is on top of the 2nd nailed normallycontinue til you hit the ridge.Move down 30" to 35" below the original first course and work your way back up.The distance (30" or 35", or 25" etc) is determined by how far up the roof you can reach and work.The way I read your steps 5, 6 & 7 you plan on slipping every shingle under the one above it and that is not what they are advocating.TFB (Bill)
Bill: On re-reading what has been said, It appears you are correct. We are all talking about the same thing, but they are doing several courses at a time, starting low & working up toward what is already finished, hence they are not struggling all the time w/ lifting shingle tabs to nail, as I would be doing. Makes sense. That is probably what one of them calls a "Lift." Case of me not recognizing terms used by full time roofers.I just need to get this thing finished a little more timely than if I first stripped the entire area to be done then went back to shingle it. I'd have a lot of area stripped & felted exposed to the Sun for several days before shingling. Also have a lot of old shingles on either end of the new area partially nailed down & I'd forget something before getting around to weaving in the new stuff. Not good.Also, since I am doing lot of it by "Braille," namely feeling my way along, I'm not very efficient, leading to a lot of traffic on the new shingles. Not good at all. I can already see wear & tear on the new work on the front side that I've completed - & I still have to get on it & flash the chimney after I complete the rest of my work. I think I can flash the chimney now before I complete the entire roof, saving a lot of wear & tear.Have about a two week break before I can get back to it.Thanks for opening this up to clearer understanding for me.DonThat's why I keep writing & asking questions.Don Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
I've done the top down thing a few times and usually with a small crew or solo.
It works better with a nail gun than hand nailing since there's a lot of lifting the shingles and nailing under them.
Tear off increments of the width of your underlayment minus a foot. Dry-in so your underlayment laps over the shingles where you stop. Measure down from the ridge and snap a line using increments of your shingle's exposure plus a few inches for the areas covered by the ridge caps. It's not rocket surgery.
High nail the 1st course and shingle on up to the ridge. If you're doing the second side, you can go on and install the ridge caps.
Move down, tear off another strip, dry-in and measure down some increments of your shingle's reveal again. Snap a line and shingle the strip in. When you get to the top of your strip, you'll have to lift the course above the one you high nailed to get the nails in the proper place.
Repeat.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Drywall tape can be used as your "storypole" to make sure you line up at the bottom... just staple them in place and leave under the shingles.
As well as what CU wrote, it works quite well when you do entire sections (eave to ridge)
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A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
We've used drywall tape and strips of metal marked out in situations like you pictured when there's lots of obstacles to go around and still line up at the top.
We usually work downward on planes that come to a point at the bottom.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Don
On a hot roof we will get a hose and spray nozzle out and cool the shingles down with a spray of water every so often.
Just leave the hose on the roof, and give it a squirt when they start getting hot.
Rich
Working on a wet roof seems less than desirable to me. I'm betting you didn't pull that one out of the OSHA handbook.
If I roofed with OSHA rules I'd make about $20 a day.
Catfish: Are you from MS, by any chance?DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
No, I live in Pensacola. You said you had already shingled areas on both sides of what you repaired. Is it a valley or just running into a strait run?
Catfish: Repaired area surrounds a 2 X 6 brick chimney. Rafters were rotted off at chimney ends & had to be replaced about 2 ft out from chimney. While doing the rough stuff, I trampled all over about 4-6 feet of shingle out from chimney so have to replace them. They were in pretty shiddy condition, anyway. Entire roof only has a few yrs left before it will have to be replaced. Has one rafter that was bad for about 12 ft. That was a bit messier to replace. See my other post called Rafter Repair. It's some 74 msgs long. Don't know the number of it. Has photos & dwgs.Anyway - I've finished all the structural work & the sheathing/shingling work on the front of the roof except flashing. Now working the back side. Left side doesn't exist because front & back come to a ridgeline that butts up against chimney. This is a hip roof, so right side will be done last. That sequence is necessary because I have a ladder dropping down into attic space to store tools, supplies, etc.Interested in working top down so I can completely finish ridge line & not have a royal PITA buttoning it up every night. Also keeps me off new work. On the front, I finally replaced all the shingles over about 20 courses, from a hip on the right to a valley on the left. Each course is about 16 ft wide. I have to leave the right side hip unfinished till I get to the last section of roof. At least I have the valley side finished! To give you an idea how fast (?) I work. On my best day I laid about a square of shingles.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
cuss
Nothing dangerous about it at all.
It just cools the roof down
Hardly any different thatn a host of other roofing conditions.
Roofs are almost always wet from dew 1st thing in the morning.
Rich